I have posted a complete transcript of his interview with Sean Hannity in the extended entry.
INTERVIEW OF THE VICE PRESIDENT
BY SEAN HANNITY
Via Telephone
3:15 P.M. EDT
Q: Mr. Vice President, how are you?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon, Sean.
Q: Well, I got to admit, these are good times for the administration. You got -- Zarqawi is dead, revenues are up significantly, the deficit has been cut significantly, the President's trip. And I'm also told there's some breaking news that a high-value insurgent has again been captured in Iraq just now.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, you're ahead of me on that one. I knew about all the other stuff, Sean, but I hadn't heard that one yet.
Q: See, that's why I'm here, to bring you good news.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: That's right. (Laughter.) I got to tune in every day to find out what's really going on in the world.
Q: Three hours a day, Mr. Vice President, is all we ask. Let's talk first about the Zarqawi memos and these documents that were captured by U.S. forces just before he was killed last week. Among other things, he's clearly worried the U.S. is winning the war in Iraq. Tell us about your awareness of him and what you think of him.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I think we need to make absolutely certain they're authentic at this stage, but they are fascinating, because they do reveal, obviously -- whoever wrote them, assuming they're authentic -- somebody who believes they're on the losing end of the engagement, I guess is the way I'd put it. I think the psychological business here is enormously important, as well, too. Somebody said the other day that the way we win is when they finally become convinced, the terrorists finally become convinced that we won't quit, that what they're betting on is obviously not that they can defeat us, because they can't, but that they can wear down our will. And I think the good news in these kinds of documents that you see here is a situation in which they obviously are increasingly concerned that they're not going to be able to sustain the effort.
Q: Can an argument be made, Mr. Vice President, that in fact they have worn down the will of some people in this country? Some people -- I don't know if you heard the comments, for example, of John Kerry. This was at the Take Back America conference that they had just earlier this week. And let me play it for you and get your reaction to it:
We were misled. We were given evidence that was not true. It was wrong, and I was wrong.
What are your thoughts on that?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I think it's -- I guess I'm not surprised at John Kerry switching his position yet again. He's the man, of course -- he did, in fact, support our efforts in Iraq initially. As I say, he voted for the $87 billion before he voted against it. Now I suppose it's sort of a complete 180-degree turn that he started during the last campaign.
The fact of the matter is, they're making the charge, Kerry is now, that somehow he was misled. He wasn't misled. He saw the same intelligence all the rest of us saw. He knew what an evil actor Saddam Hussein was. He did, in fact, support the efforts at the outset.
This is hard stuff. It's very difficult to do what we're trying to do here. But we are getting it done. The troops are performing magnificently. They are doing this tremendous job. We're making significant progress. The Iraqis have put together their government under their new constitution. The President, of course, was just there this week for meetings -- I think major progress on the political front, but also on the security front. And the death of Zarqawi is proof positive that, in fact, our guys are getting the job done.
Q: But doesn't this really get to the debate -- and there is a distinct difference between the two parties. And you can hear it clearly in what John Kerry is saying. They have a debate going on in the House of Representatives today. This has everything to do with Iraq, the war against Islamic fascism. In many ways -- I guess the distinct difference is that you and the President -- and frankly, I agree with you -- have decided that the time is now and the place is Iraq. I ask most people on the other side of the aisle when I interview them or debate with them, well, do you believe at some point we are going to be at war with those people that have attacked us, that want to destroy our society. They say yes. They just disagree with the time and the place, no?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I think that's right, Sean. The distinction I see here is that there's a failure on their part to understand, or refusal to understand, that this isn't just about Iraq, that it, in fact, is about the broader global war on terror, that this is a global conflict that everybody should be aware of by now. There have been attacks all over the world, in London and Madrid and Bali and Istanbul, as well as New York and Washington; that the key to our success to date has been to actively and aggressively go on offense. Pre-9/11, the policies that were pursued by the U.S. government were not aggressive at all. There was no price really extracted for those who launched attacks against the United States, right up until 9/11 -- 9/11, of course, and this President changed all that.
And Iraq is very much a part of that, in the sense the key is to change circumstances in that part of the world that in fact generated those people who have launched those attacks against the United States. Before 9/11, you might be able to think about retiring behind our oceans and being safe. After 9/11, we know that's not possible. We know 19 guys on 9/11 with box-cutters and airline tickets killed 3,000 Americans.
Iraq is important, just as Pakistan is important and Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan and all of those countries in that part of the world where we've seen terrorism blossom as it did in Afghanistan, obviously. We've gone in aggressively and dealt with it, and that's exactly what we're doing in Iraq. Iraq was a safe haven for terrorists, it had a guy running it who had started two wars, who had produced and used weapons of mass destruction. Taking down Saddam Hussein was exactly the right thing to do.
It's also, I think, in part responsible for the fact that we haven't been hit again in nearly five years. That's no accident. The fact is, we've taken the battle to the enemy. That's been the key to the safety and security of the American people these last few years, and we need to continue to do it. And we need to make certain that Iraq doesn't become a failed state, but instead the Iraqi people have an opportunity for self-government. And that's exactly what we're doing.
Q:Mr. Vice President, there seems to be a rush to judgment any time there's an allegation made against our troops. We have the Haditha incident that is ongoing right now. We have another incident. We had a father calling -- his son is a Marine, his son hasn't been charged, his son is in shackles in Camp Pendleton. We have the comments of John Murtha. Let me play him for you and get your reaction:
There was no -- there was no firefight. There was no IED that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them. And they killed innocent civilians in cold blood.
What are your thoughts when you hear that?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I'm sorry to hear John -- Jack Murtha doing that. Jack is somebody I know well. We served together in the Congress many years ago. I think he's prejudging the outcome here. We have not yet seen the final results of that investigation. The people involved are entitled, I believe, to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise. It's very important that we not draw conclusions before we've seen the full results here. These individuals are entitled to be fairly treated, and there's a uniform code of military justice. And that's the way the matter ought to be handled.
I guess the other thing that bothers me, Sean, is that I hope people don't lose sight of the enormous talent and dedication and patriotism and skill of all our men and women out there in uniform. The danger here is sometimes that the mainstream media will take something like this and it becomes sort of the be-all and end-all of their coverage for a while, and creates the impression that somehow we've got a lot folks out there doing evil things, and that's just not the case. We've got thousands, hundreds of thousands of brave young Americans who are out there defending the country with their lives, and they deserve the support of all of us. And it's certainly not fair in any respect to suggest that somehow we've got a significant number of issues there where people are violating the law. There will be justice administered in this case, as it should be, and that's the way it needs to be.
Q: They deserve the presumption of innocence.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: They deserve the presumption of innocence, and I think it's also important for people to recognize this is the United States Marine Corps. This is one of the finest organizations in the history of the United States of America. They do have good, solid procedures for dealing with these kinds of issues, and I'm sure that's exactly what they'll do.
Q: Mr. Vice President, I guess the most dangerous and volatile situation that is emerging on the world front is the issue of Iran and nuclear weapons. Ahmadinejad has pledged to annihilate Israel, wipe it off the face of the earth. They've not been cooperative with the IAEA. We see the possibility of talks emerging. How do you prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons? And is there a possibility it may take military action?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, the effort that's underway right now is to persuade the Iranians that they don't need the capability to enrich uranium, that they should not pursue nuclear weapons. That's being done diplomatically, and hopefully it will produce the desired result.
The President has made it very clear, though, that no option is off the table, that, in fact, the important thing here is that we reach the desired outcome, and that a nation with the kind of background that the current government of Iran has, obviously, would be, I think, a source of instability were they to possess nuclear weapons. Everybody in that part of the world, and really almost on a global basis, I think, has arrived at the same consensus, that Iran does not need and should not possess nuclear weapons.
Q: Mr. Vice President, poll numbers have been tough of late, yet the economy is growing and surging. The revenues of the government have increased significantly. We've got elections coming up. We've had a huge victory with Zarqawi. Do you feel the momentum has shifted?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I think it has, Sean, but the President and I have the basic attitude we've got jobs to do, and we're going to do them just as long as we're here. There are elections this year. That's an important part of the process. I'm spending a fair amount of time out helping our candidates, and the President has done some of it.
Q: Are you comfortable that the Republicans will win?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: THE VICE PRESIDENT: I think we will. We've got some great candidates. It's going to be an interesting year, in terms of the issues that are before the country. I think you're right, that the economy is ticking along in very good shape. I think we are -- if you look at the track record of the President and the global war on terror, it is a very significant success. We've liberated 50 million people. We've shut down the black market nuclear weapons provider, A.Q. Khan, that provided technology to Libya. We've got significant progress in that part of the world in many, many respects. We protected the United States against further attacks from the terrorists. We can't guarantee there won't be another attack, but the track record, I think, is remarkable.
Q: The last question I have is, the biggest criticism I hear from conservatives about the President and the Vice President -- the administration, that's you -- is they're not happy with the proposal on immigration, and anything that would be any kind of forgiveness or amnesty for illegal immigrants. In the 40 seconds we have, your response.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, we've said we're not for amnesty, either. We believe we need to do border enforcement -- that's got to be the top priority -- and beef up our capacity at the border. We've already turned back about six million people since we got here. We also think we need a temporary guest worker program that would allow people to come in for jobs that Americans won't take, and then return again, so we know who's here and we know what they're doing here. We have not supported amnesty and do not support amnesty.
Q: Mr. Vice President, we always appreciate having you on. Congratulations. It's been a good run. And last quick question: Do you think you'll be able to pull some troops out quick?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I wouldn't want to speculate on that, Sean. I think the key question here is accomplishing the mission, and that's got to be the test.
Q: Vice President Cheney, thanks for being with us.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Good to talk to you.
END 3:27 P.M. EDT
Posted by Matt at June 16, 2006 05:28 PM
Trackback Pings
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.blogsforbush.com/mt/whitehouse.cgi/7327
Comments
I just don't get that poll, anyway, that shows Dems being favored. They haven't had a decent policy in years. All they can do is obstruct and attack Bush. Why would anyone want to vote for people like that?!
Posted by: Bret Helm at June 16, 2006 05:40 PM
We shall see but really the Dems have done themselves a serious disservice with, what has been until recently, a dogmatic and baseless assertion of certain victory. Even before the '04 elections and certainly after, any historical analysis of the numbers show that for the Dems to TURN either house they would have to SWEEP all the close races. This is especially true for the Senate. Hey, even if you are a proud Braves fan, even if they have done well for the first half of the season, would you really bet, at that point, not that they would win the Series but in FOUR GAMES? The Dems may make some gains. Personally I think they will lose seats in both houses but I'm not betting my tax refund. But anyone who thinks they will turn either house is declaring a sweep across the board. It just ain't happenin'. But we'll see.
Posted by: megapotamus at June 16, 2006 06:27 PM
Part of me hopes the dems win a majority of the contests. Why? Because it really would discredit these "Rove steals the elections! There is no freedom! democracy is dead!" idiots. Then again, in the same breath they say Rove stole the election while being completely confident they will win the 08 election. Hypocrits, just wan't something to complain about.
Of course, discrediting a liberal is like shooting a turkey after it's been taken out of the oven
Posted by: Jonathan at June 16, 2006 06:57 PM
Jeez, MarK and Mattt, his blog should be limited to only 2 new postings a day. It gets too cluttered. Half the stuff that goes on here is sheer crap.
Posted by: Canuckguy at June 16, 2006 07:06 PM
Wow, you know that you are hurting when you are looking to Cheney, which has a 12% approval rating with the American people to boost morale.
I guess he missed the poll showing 66% of people thought that democrats could do better on the war on terror. Or the one that showed that nearly 70% said the country and aconomy were on the wrong track.
Hannity seems to forget that it wa 8 years between attacks on Clinton's watch, so using his logic, CLinton was better at protecting the homeland
Posted by: axis at June 16, 2006 07:14 PM
Canuck...if it's sheer crap why are you continuing to come back?
It's like a Canadian convention here half the day.
66% of the people that Democrats could do better on terror....link please Axis.
By the way Axis...USS COLE...CLINTON'S WATCH. KHOBAR TOWERS...CLINTON'S WATCH. US AFRICAN EMBASSIES...CLINTON'S WATCH. OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING...CLINTON'S WATCH.
Etc, etc
Sure you want to play this game?
Posted by: Warriornation at June 16, 2006 07:36 PM
Warrior,
He's about to claim that the Embassy grounds isn't American soil. Wait for it ...
Posted by: Bane of Liberals' Existence at June 16, 2006 07:40 PM
LOL @ WARRIOR!!
What planet are you on man?!? The worst terrorist attack in the history of the nation at home or abroad was on Bush's watch, with a memo on his desk titled "BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE INSIDE US" and contents including "using commercial jetlines as weapons". Layover from Clinton? I guess if you want to use that logic than all those attacks that happened during Clinton were layovers from Bush and Reagan... I mean gee, Bush was only in office a YEAR and a HALF when we were attacked...
Posted by: Steve at June 16, 2006 07:44 PM
Posted by: Bane of Liberals' Existence at June 16, 2006 07:47 PM
Cheney hasn't been right about too much in the last six years, so I doubt he's right this time-after all its his fault our foreign policy got hijacked by the neocons, and he helped Rummy plan the war in Iraq.
Hey Warrior- Lay off the Canucks-what does it matter if they're American liberals or Canadian liberals-you're going to use the same old attack mode anyway. Lets not be xenophobes at "Blogs for Bush"-it sets a bad example for the illegal immigrants.
Posted by: kritter at June 16, 2006 07:51 PM
Steve
Bush was "on watch" for 8 months when 9/11 happened. With the magical and perfect presidency of the vaginal one that preceded him, how could he expect anything less than all the terrorists were already dealt with?
Secondly, Bush inherited a recession because of the vaginal one and was a bit busy trying to turn that around since the dot.com bubble had finally burst and reality was setting in that the economy of the late 1990's was built on fantasy.
Posted by: Warriornation at June 16, 2006 11:54 PM
kritter....I have problems with people from another country screaming about how "mean" and "terrible" and inhumane we are as Americans when they are smashing the brains of 350,000 defenseless seals every year.
Posted by: Warriornation at June 16, 2006 11:55 PM
I don't support the seal hunt at all, I think its cruel and inhuman, especially the way they go about it.
But killing of seals and killing of PEOPLE are not on the same level are they?
Posted by: axis at June 17, 2006 12:13 AM
That depends Axis...when we're killing Zarqawi, Usay, Qusay, terrorists abounds....I'd say it's not only good, it's great.
Seals, after all are innocent. Many people are not.
If it's all the same to you, I'll continue to question the morality of a people that slaughters 350,000 innocent seals each year in the same way you question our morality even though we are trying to eliminate bad guys...a distinction you simply refuse to recognize.
Posted by: Warriornation at June 17, 2006 12:45 AM
yes, those are justified, however the tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis that died when you dropped 40-50 000 bombs on Iraqi cities is a different story.
Posted by: axis at June 17, 2006 01:09 AM
Chaney also said the insurection was in its last throes TWO YEARS AGO!
Posted by: Jose Pandella at June 17, 2006 02:18 AM
Gee, Warrior, I didn't think you'd blame the entire nation of Canada for the actions of a few. Do you hate the Japanese as well? They are planning to begin allowing whaling, after a twenty-year hiatus. Whales are highly intelligent mammals that communicate with sonar signals to each other. Lets make sure no one from Japan posts here about American policy.
BTW, as a typical bleeding heart liberal, I do care about the seals, and can give you a link to PETA, but I highly doubt you'd find their lefty goals compatible with your conservatism.
Posted by: kritter at June 17, 2006 09:22 AM
In my opinion, it would be bad if American troops would leave Iraq. It would destabilize the country imediately, no matter if it was right or wrong to start this war. Italian troops (2000 something...) will leave the country. Ok, let make a more complex comment:
My first theory is that the european countries, such as mine (Germany) should take more responsibility. Our parliament gave ok to deploy troops to the Congo. Thats the first and important step. France, Britain, Germany - the had colonies in Africa. And that created the worse situation we have there today. So, this should be our next Mission (also of the USA).
And, as President Bush said, Iraq needs more energy. But I hope its not atomic power he was thinking of. Last Year (?) Bush talked about small atomic power plants, especially for the third world. I hope thats not going to happen.
Thats my second theory: Send military to poor countries, then stabilize the situation, build regernative energy (25th part of africa with solar cells - enough energy for the whole world) and with enough energy, the poverty, the terrorism, illness and war will stop rising. Thats a totaly new form of war.
The reason for nearly each war was a shortage energy. Think about it, WWII had its reason also there. The golden 20ies, economy crash...
The lack of energy is the reason for idealogies that mislead people intor fanatism and terrorism. Poverty is a result of not enough energy.
But the situation now the world is handling war, illness and terroism is like filling a bottom-less hole with water (remember the OK for the new 60 something billion dollars for Iraq). Take a small part of that 60 billion and invest it into regenerative energy. Oil is getting more expensive, and also uranium. In 20 years, the sun will cost the same as today, not so atomic power or oil. So, Bush was right, talking about the Energy in Iraq, but Im not sure what kind of energy he wants to install there...
The world is getting more complex, but at the same time as easy to control like a mobilphone - thats how many people thnink. But it isn't like that.
Lets not wait until US think tanks are writing about it.
By the way: Good luck to the American soccer team!
Posted by:
Jan at June 17, 2006 10:44 AM
Yes, we should have put Air Marshalls on planes. We should have made our airports more secure. We could have done something, instead of absolutely nothing, after our embassies and the USS Cole were bombed. We could have hired more agents who speak Arabic. We could have ... We should have ... and the list goes on.
We can easily place the blame of 9/11 on both administrations (of course, I place most of the blame on the murdering scumballs).
Our main focus is not what we could have or should have done, but what we can and should do NOW to prevent any future attacks. And the fact that we have not been attacked in the US is an accomplishment we should all be happy about.
And Canadians, you should be relieved you finally have someone in power who is going to put forth anti-terror policies. Just because you recently discovered the 17 terrorists plotting against your country doesn't mean there aren't others.
Posted by: kimberly4bush at June 17, 2006 11:01 AM
kimberly4bush, do you agree with the Bush administrations stance on 9/11 that it should never be fully investigated to determine exactly what happened, what was known beforehand and what was done or not done?
Posted by: axis at June 17, 2006 11:18 AM
No, I do not agree with that. I know the neorads are bent on re-opening up an investigation on 9/11. I do not agree with their motive, which is to blast Bush. We ALL know there were mistakes made, but not only by the current administration, but by past administrations. I would like a more thorough investigation so we can correct mistakes and prevent another 9/11.
However, like I said before, we need to focus on NOW. There are thousands of pages of documents and thousands of hours of audiotape discovered in Iraq and in other raids that have yet to be transcribed. This is where we need to put our manpower and resources, not on a lengthy and costly investigation. That can come later.
Jan: Although poverty may be the reason some join in the jihad against the "infidels", the real motivator, and the reason why AQ was formed, was not poverty. If it were, Bin Laden would have used his wealth to build power plants, etc. If AQ and their ilk wanted prosperity, they would seek to emulate the United States, not to destroy it.
Here is a good article on terrorism and how we can continue to fight against it:
A key aspect of these groups is their strong ideology. The members are motivated by divine command and actually believe that God is sending them on their mission. A terrorist organization motivated by divine command is a much greater threat than other kinds of terrorist organizations because it is not possible to compromise with such a group. Furthermore, Islamic radicals believe in the need to spread their version of Islam all over the world and see the vast majority of Muslims as infidels, as well, and therefore as targets.
Before I take off for the day, I'd like us all to take a moment to pray for the safety of the two US soldiers kidnapped by the terrorists. May God grant them a safe and swift return.
Posted by: kimberly4bush at June 17, 2006 01:31 PM
Why kritter, you guys have no problem blaming the entire US military as evil based on the actions of a few.
Axis has no problem blaming the USA for the actions of a few. If you can't accept a retort then stop the crap.
You can't have it both ways.
Posted by: Warriornation at June 17, 2006 02:44 PM
I don't know where my original post went ... and I don't want to spend the time to rewrite it! :-(
Axis: Actually ... I don't. However, my desire to reopen a 9/11 investigation is not to find evidence the Bush Administration made mistakes. We ALL already know that. The neorads, despite this knowledge, want to have more ammunition to justify their hatred for President Bush. I want to have a thorough investigation so we can learn from the mistakes made to make sure we don't suffer another 9/11. Why do you want it?
I hope everyone takes a moment to pray for the two missing US troops. May God grant their safe and swift release.
Posted by: kimberly4bush at June 17, 2006 03:00 PM
Axis: Actually ... I don't. However, my desire to reopen a 9/11 investigation is not to find evidence the Bush Administration made mistakes. We ALL already know that. The neorads, despite this knowledge, want to have more ammunition to justify their hatred for President Bush. I want to have a thorough investigation so we can learn from the mistakes made to make sure we don't suffer another 9/11. Why do you want it?
-- I would like to know exactly what happened. Its well known that members of the Bush administration wrote a document in 1999 called PNAC, where they spell out a plan for sonquering the middle east. That plan on page 51, spelled out a need for "another pearl harbour" in order for americans to support the neo-con agenda. 9 months after Bush takes office, America has another pearl harbour. Now, PNAC announced last week, they are closing their office as they have achieved their goals
Add to this the extreme unlikelyhood that 19 hijackers with box cutters could defeat the entire civil air defense, NORAD, Air Force and Pentagon security. Or that the trade towers are the FIRST metal building in world history to collapse from fire, or why they fell EXACTLY as they would have if demolished with explosives. Or how building 7 could find itself rigged with explosives so the building owner could "take it down", when such a demolition takes weeks and weeks of planning ahead of time. OR why the building owner took out a 10 billion insurance policy just 2 weeks before 9/11. OR how George Bush's BROTHER, who was in charge of security at the WTC, has his contract due to expire on Sept 11.
So would like to know what happened, who knew about it, what they did about it, or what they did not know and who was involved. In all likelyhood, they were aided and abetted, wether known to the hijackers or unknown, so it is important to find out in order that the ones guilty to punished rather than allowed to get away with killing 3000 people
Posted by: axis at June 17, 2006 03:24 PM
Axis: First, thanks for the great laugh.
I'd like you to post a reliable link about the 1999 document and the announcement. They're web site is still up and current.
There are hundreds of engineers and architects who explain in detail why the WTT collapsed. And Marvin Bush served on the Stratesec board of directors from 1993 through 1999. His LAST term ended in JUNE 2000.
Gotta run. Here'sa good site for you to check out in your spare time.
Posted by: kimberly4bush at June 17, 2006 04:21 PM
Here you go, the PNAC Document from the PNAC Website
Scroll down to page 63 pardon is the correct page in the PDF document, you will see
"Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor."
I was not talking about Stratesec, was talking about Securacom, the company backed by Saudi Oil Interests that Marvin was a board members of. They were in charge of security on 9/11.
Posted by: axis at June 17, 2006 04:33 PM
Here you go, the PNAC Document from the PNAC Website
Scroll down to page 63 pardon is the correct page in the PDF document, you will see
"Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor."
I was not talking about Stratesec, was talking about Securacom, the company backed by Saudi Oil Interests that Marvin was a board members of. They were in charge of security on 9/11.
Posted by: axis at June 17, 2006 04:34 PM
You read that statement one way and I read it for what it is. In fact, I must have read right over that statement because I never once thought, Aha! They wanted 9/11 to happen so they could devise their evil plan of taking over the world! Did you bother to read the entire document?
Both companies are related. Marvin Bush joined Securacom's board of directors in 1993 as part of a new management team hired when Securacom separated from Burns and Roe, and he remained on the board of directors until 2000. What are the responsibilities of a member on a Board of Directors? Do you honestly believe because Marvin was a member on the board, he was responsible for security? And if so, was he solely responsible for security? And if we was, was he solely responsible for security on 9/11/2001 when he was no longer on the board?
Posted by: kimberly4bush at June 17, 2006 04:47 PM
I don't understand your statement about the hijackers ...
Add to this the extreme unlikelyhood that 19 hijackers with box cutters could defeat the entire civil air defense, NORAD, Air Force and Pentagon security.
And the statement about building 7 is a new one for me. But I'll have to revisit that later because I've got more fun things to do!
Ciao.
Posted by: kimberly4bush at June 17, 2006 04:54 PM
I see to recall that people that speculated about the holocaust were initially called "conspiracy theorists" at first also, until the truth was known.
Posted by: axis at June 17, 2006 05:34 PM
Building 7 was a big part of the whole thing. It was officially demolished and numerous commercial dmolition experts have gone on record to state that such a controlled demolition would require weeks of planning and strategic placement of charges so the building would fall in its own footprint instead of toppling over into city streets.
---------
Larry Silverstein, the owner of the WTC complex, admitted on a September 2002 PBS documentary, 'America Rebuilds' that he and the NYFD decided to 'pull' WTC 7 on the day of the attack. The word 'pull' is industry jargon for taking a building down with explosives. This admission is very interesting as it would require weeks of preparation and planning in order to safely demolish such a structure to ensure it falls in its own footprint and not on city streets.
Larry Silverstein on PBS explaining that they had decided to "pull" building 7 after it caught fire later in the afternoon on September 11th, 2001. Any commercial demolition expert will agree that it is not possible to safely rig such a tall building for demolition in a few hours.
This again ties into firefighter accounts of hearing demolition style explosions just before the fall of the twin towers. Many independent demolition experts have stated that it simply would not be possible to setup and demolish such a structure in a few hours unless explosive charges and demolition plans had already been in place prior to the attack. If explosive charges had been in place before the attack on WTC 7, it is also conceivable that they were also in place in the Twin Towers and that the collapse of those buildings had also been actually controlled demolitions.
In February of 2002 Silverstein Properties won $861 million from Industrial Risk Insurers to rebuild on the site of WTC 7. Silverstein Properties' estimated investment in WTC 7 was $386 million so the collapse of building 7 resulted in a net profit of over $500 million. Silverstein also had leased the entire WTC complex just 6 weeks before 9/11, of which Silverstein Properties invested only $15 million toward the total purchase-price of $3.2 Billion for a 99-year lease on holdings worth an estimated $8 billion. The low-rise office buildings WTC 4, 5, and 6, and 400,000 square feet of retail space were included with the Twin Towers in this deal. Upon signing the 99 year lease, he had taken out a record insurance policy on the buildings, insured for $3.5 Billion against any claim. Silverstein argued that the planes striking the trade towers were 2 separate events and so was entitled to $7 Billion, which would have doubled his 10 year total investment. The Silverstein lease agreement also contained an escape clause that voided Silverstein's ongoing obligations in the event that the buildings were struck by an act of terrorism. This would allow Silverstein to fully collect on the insurance policy while eliminating the ongoing leaseholding costs for the destroyed WTC complex. Silverstein Properties were finally awarded $3 Billion, in an insurance payout that was initially seeking $7 Billion, so its safe to say that the 9/11 attack was profitable for Silverstein. Additionally, Silverstein is currently in negotiations with the New York Port Authority to rebuild the WTC in a deal which will see the port authority assuming the majority of the rebuilding costs.
Posted by: axis at June 17, 2006 05:38 PM
In an article in the Journal of the Minerals, Metals, and Materials Society and in subsequent interviews, Thomas Eagar, an engineering professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, explains why: steel loses 50 percent of its strength at 1,200 degrees F; 90,000 liters of jet fuel ignited other combustible materials such as rugs, curtains, furniture and paper, which continued burning after the jet fuel was exhausted, raising temperatures above 1,400 degrees F and spreading the inferno throughout each building. Temperature differentials of hundreds of degrees across single steel horizontal trusses caused them to sag--straining and then breaking the angle clips that held the beams to the vertical columns. Once one truss failed, others followed. When one floor collapsed onto the next floor below, that floor subsequently gave way, creating a pancaking effect that triggered each 500,000-ton structure to crumble. Conspiricists argue that the buildings should have fallen over on their sides, but with 95 percent of each building consisting of air, they could only have collapsed straight down.
Link.
On September 9, 2005, Mr. Dara McQuillan, a spokesman for Silverstein Properties, issued the following statement on this issue:
Seven World Trade Center collapsed at 5:20 p.m. on September 11, 2001, after burning for seven hours. There were no casualties, thanks to the heroism of the Fire Department and the work of Silverstein Properties employees who evacuated tenants from the building.
The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) conducted a thorough investigation of the collapse of all the World Trade Center buildings. The FEMA report concluded that the collapse of Seven World Trade Center was a direct result of fires triggered by debris from the collapse of WTC Tower 1.
In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building.
Later in the day, the Fire Commander ordered his firefighters out of the building and at 5:20 p.m. the building collapsed. No lives were lost at Seven World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.
As noted above, when Mr. Silverstein was recounting these events for a television documentary he stated, “I said, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life. Maybe the smartest thing to do is to pull it.” Mr. McQuillan has stated that by “it,” Mr. Silverstein meant the contingent of firefighters remaining in the building.
The National Institute of Standards and Technology has stated unequivocally, “NIST has seen so evidence that the collapse of WTC 7 was caused by bombs, missiles, or controlled demolition,” in its Collapse of WTC 7 report (p. 6). NIST’s working hypothesis for the collapse of WTC 7 is that it was caused by the collapse of a critical column due to “fire and/or debris induced structural damage.” There was substantial damage to WTC 7 when the nearby WTC 1 tower collapsed and fires began shortly afterwards. Also, WTC 7 was a very unusual building because it was built over an existing Con-Edison power generation substation, which contained two large 6,000 gallon fuel tanks for the emergency generation of power. The fuel from these tanks could have contributed to the intense heat that apparently weakened the supporting columns in WTC 7.
Posted by: kimberly4bush at June 17, 2006 07:16 PM
Kimberly, that report was issued around September 11th. After that, many details that were reported were found to be untrue.
Larry Silverstein, the owner of the WTC complex, admitted on a September 2002 PBS documentary, 'America Rebuilds' that he and the NYFD decided to 'pull' WTC 7 on the day of the attack. The word 'pull' is industry jargon for taking a building down with explosives.
This is a fact, he went on the record and admitted that Building 7 was demolished with explosives. Read the PBS transcripts yourself if you don't believe it.
Posted by: axis at June 17, 2006 11:20 PM
Axis: Did you read my post?
The conspiracy theory on 9/11 has been debunked and debunked and debunked.
Sorry to burst your bubble ...
Posted by: kimberly4bush at June 18, 2006 01:27 AM
kimberly, how exactly do you debunk something which has never been investigated????
You haven't burst any bubble sister, in fact a poll taken late last year shows well over 80% of americans firmly believe that there is much more to the 9/11 story than has been let on.
The limited committee in congress showed exactly that there was much more to the story. How much more is still to be determined by a full investigation, which is left to the democrats since your republicans are too chicken to do it for fear it will reveal GOP wrongdoing or incompetance.
Democrats will get to the truth and expose any lies and wrong doing, we always do. Thats what we do. You republicans lie, break laws and are corrupt, we democrats expose you and toss your asses in prison. We bring balance back to the force
Posted by: axis at June 18, 2006 01:44 AM
Warrior-
As far as I know, I've never blamed the U.S. military for anything. I HAVE blamed Bush, Cheney and Rummy for planning this fiasco, but I salute anyone serving in the military right now. My nephew is in the Marines, active duty, and my dad was in the Air Force during WWII, and in the reserves for twenty years after that, so calling me anti-military because I think we are undermanned and way over our heads in Iraq, won't fly.
Posted by: kritter at June 18, 2006 05:09 PM
You haven't burst any bubble sister, in fact a poll taken late last year shows well over 80% of americans firmly believe that there is much more to the 9/11 story than has been let on.
Your right Axis, we believe there is much more to the story than has been told! As a matter of fact I think it was a setup from the beginning! I believe there were secret meetings between bin ladled and some high government officials! I think they hatched a plan to destroy the credibility of the united states and to sabotage an administration in it's first few months in office. It's too bad Bill & Hill didn't choose a more compitent man than Bin ladeled & Zarqawi! They seem to be having issues with carrying out the der clintonian legacy! Bwahahaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaaahaaaaaaa! You guys really don't see what a bunch of asses you look like to the rest of the world! *snicker*
Democrats will get to the truth and expose any lies and wrong doing, we always do. Thats what we do. You republicans lie, break laws and are corrupt, we democrats(will Jefferson) expose you and toss your asses in prison. We bring balance back to the force
We have been waiting for you pacifist to do that for four years now doofus! Don't you think we would have jumped on the band wagon if you could have produced some SOLID evidence, and maybe a CONVICTION or two(I would have, believe it or not)! Maybe the Bushes can rule the world with idiots like yourself investigating. So sad that Bill & Hill couldn't pull it off though eh! So sad for you that is! Hope your EXPOSE` doesn't blow up in your face!
Posted by: bearmanUSMC at June 19, 2006 03:35 AM
so calling me anti-military because I think we are undermanned and way over our heads in Iraq, won't fly.
Posted by: kritter at June 18, 2006 05:09 PM
little advice kritter, talk to the men on the ground if your want the real story, then draw your political conclusions. And I'm not talking about the one 1/10,000 that comes back with a gyllenhall chip on his shoulder!
Posted by: bearmanUSMC at June 19, 2006 03:38 AM
bearman- I'm sure the men on the ground are committed to their mission and their country, but that doesn't mean that they can analyze the entire situation. Declaring the mission a success, unfortunately doesn't make it so. There has been so much prematurely positive spin coming out of Iraq from the administration, that few Americans believe anything they hear from their government about this war. I believe Murtha and Biden when they say there is no strategy, because that is how this war has been fought. Seven retired generals came out and told us that Rumsfeld wanted to go in with a small strike force , and had no interest in nation-building. As a result, we have today's chaos. When I see that there's security on the streets, higher rates of employment for Iraqis, and more than four hours a day of electricity, then it will look like progress. Our soldiers are out working to rebuild Iraq, but insurgents follow behind them and destroy what they've built. That's what makes this war so frustrating and expensive. It has been mismanaged from the start, and the death of one terrorist doesn't change that fact.
I wish P.M. Maliki the best of luck in his quest for security and democracy in Iraq-he's got a tough road ahead of him. But Baghdad is still too dangerous for reporters or visiting dignitaries to leave the highly fortified Green Zone. Pres. Bush had to have absolute secrecy even to visit Maliki in the Green Zone.
Posted by: kritter at June 19, 2006 09:38 AM
bearman- I'm sure the men on the ground are committed to their mission and their country, but that doesn't mean that they can analyze the entire situation.
Noone can kritter, that's the whole point! You are expecting perfection out of an imperfect world with imperfect people before you declare victory! You see we "military types" declared victory when the Iraqi army fell in two weeks, we declared victory when saddaams sons had bullets in their heads, we declared victory when saddaam was captured, we declared victory when an Iraqi government was formed, we do not consider it a failure that civilians are dying when it is they that are lining up by the hundreds to become soldiers & law enforcment even in the wake of many bombings against people such as that(course the liberal mentality is that they are doing that because they are SOOOOOOOOO poor)! Sorry, I prefer my fantasy(reality) over your fantasy of what is going on in Iraq.
Declaring the mission a success, unfortunately doesn't make it so.
You people don't grasp what exactly the mission is, gee what a suprise!
There has been so much prematurely positive spin coming out of Iraq from the administration, that few Americans believe anything they hear from their government about this war.
Please Please, tell me you are joking! If your serious, then you need some serious help! Do you know how easy it would be to win this war if we would just ignore the media, start up a strong propaganda campaign and make the Iraqi people believe we are their saviours and the terrorist are hellions on earth! I think we could make a pretty strong case and brainwash a whole bunch of people!!! It'll never happen, open your eyes kritter, the politico's that have latched onto the war as their wave can't prove a goshdarn thing! The American people are worn down by the constant negativity that comes from the mouth of the "Declared liberal" MSM! Your right about one thing, the people don't know what to believe, but I guarantee that they believe the MSM even less than the administration! The polls reflect the TYPICAL wear & tear of ANY war on any people, it doesn't reflect a big tidal wave change in America, as much as libs would like to think it does! I would love to see more polls out reflecting the dumps that the MSM is finding itself in.......hmmmmmm, where are those polls anyways? No matter, polls are a joke!
I believe Murtha and Biden when they say there is no strategy, because that is how this war has been fought. Seven retired generals came out and told us that Rumsfeld wanted to go in with a small strike force , and had no interest in nation-building. As a result, we have today's chaos.
Todays chaos is a result of years of ignoring freaks like saddaam, Kim jung ill, and Kadafi, and depending on PACIFISM! Todays chaos will be non-existent five years from now & Iraq will be another democratic success where the peoples will is what happens not saddaams, hmmmmm........sounds like a better world! Sorry, michael jackson singing about a better world & Axis dreaming of a better world doesn't make it so, kinda like your successful mission statement!
When I see that there's security on the streets, higher rates of employment for Iraqis, and more than four hours a day of electricity, then it will look like progress. Our soldiers are out working to rebuild Iraq, but insurgents follow behind them and destroy what they've built. That's what makes this war so frustrating and expensive. It has been mismanaged from the start, and the death of one terrorist doesn't change that fact.
Like I said before kritter, you need to talk to the boys on the ground, all you have is what the MSM feeds you, "bull shiznit". I however talk to the boyz on the ground all the time & your just flat out wrong about the re-building & about the insurgency! The American military is doing a fantastic job & the Generals in charge would show the "retired generals" a thing or two if they would pull their heads from their arse for ten minutes!
I wish P.M. Maliki the best of luck in his quest for security and democracy in Iraq-he's got a tough road ahead of him. But Baghdad is still too dangerous for reporters or visiting dignitaries to leave the highly fortified Green Zone. Pres. Bush had to have absolute secrecy even to visit Maliki in the Green Zone.
Posted by: kritter at June 19, 2006 09:38 AM
Duh, what did you think it would be a walk in the park! This brings us right back to my first statement about you expecting a perfect world & right away to declare success. Yes, there are still evil men about Iraq that would kidnap & kill Iraqi women & children if they thought it would serve their purpose! Their days are numbered however. The military(iraqi & U.S.) are hot on their trail and the people are sick & tired of the deaths of their friends and family! Patience young grasshopper, freedom is their portion as much as it is yours or mine!
Posted by: bearmanUSMC at June 19, 2006 11:55 AM
axis' natterings remind me of the absolute wild-eyed hysteria about the so-called "Downing Street Memo" which supposedly showed some wicked plot to deceive, based on the use of the word "fixed". I am not going to look it up and quote it for two reasons: One is that axis simply does not command enough respect to warrant putting out the effort, and one is that he would ignore anything I said anyway.
But I spent a lot of time in England, and fully understood the explanation of the Brits that the whole thing was based on a level of cultural ignorance. Being British, they were more polite than that, but that's what it came down to.
To those seeking desperately for conspiracy, ANY conspiracy, the word "fixed" HAD to have mean "rigged" or set up in some way meant to deceive. Who cares if, in England, it merely means "set"? It's used all the time in exactly that way---"Is the time of the dinner fixed?" "We've fixed the seating arrangements."
We use a similar form here, such as using a "fixative" to set something so it will not move. But the snickering, giggling, conspiracy addicts were desperate for a new one to sink their nubby little teeth into, and the word "fixed" gave them an excuse.
The sneerers, the yip-yappers, and of course dear axis of insanity, all prove that reality is not only not a requirement for the Liberal Left, it would only get in the way.
People who travel and interact with people from different countries and cultures soon learn that words mean different things in different cultures, even when we think we are speaking the same language. A perfect example is the American ski instructor working in Australia who got punched out by an irate husband when he cheerfully informed the man that his wife was just fine, she only fell on her fanny.
But ignorant people who cling to, and flaunt, their ignorance simply do not have time for insignificant niceties such as what words really mean to those who use them. It's ever so much more fun to find lies, conspiracies, and plots around every corner.
When you've been thought of as stupid all your life, when you've been the butt of jokes, it's great to have a niche where you can feel smarter than anyone else. And what easier way to feel superior than to know, absolutely KNOW, things that no one else knows? All you have to do is overlook the fact that no one else "knows" this stuff because it simply is not true. You have found the only way you can possibly ever feel better than anyone else, and if it demands a total allegiance to a bizarre combination of hatred, fantasy, and egomania, hey, it's what works for you. "You" being axis, steve, TEO, and so on.
So go on believing in whatever your cut-and-paste loony theory is supposed to "prove". Next week you can explain how Bush blew up the levees. A collapsing building makes a series of loud explosive-like noises---who woulda thunk it? A few million tons of water wipes out some dirt banks---quelle surprise! A war that the president warned would take decades or possibly generations takes, so far, three years--the sky is falling!! People die in war---nobody expected THAT! It's all GOT to be a wicked plot! Secret indictments! Damning memos! Supressed reports! It never stops!!!
This constant state of alarm, outrage, and invention explains the feeble grasp on reality shown by you blog vandals---your hypersensitive antennae can now pick up vibrations where vibrations simply do not exist, and then spin them into elaborate, albeit unreal, stories. But your persistent presence where you clealy do not belong is proof that this blog site is a threat to many.
Posted by: Almiranta at June 19, 2006 10:49 PM
Need proof that axis is totally, dementedly, delusional? Here...
"Democrats will get to the truth and expose any lies and wrong doing, we always do. Thats what we do. You republicans lie, break laws and are corrupt, we democrats expose you and toss your asses in prison. We bring balance back to the force"
See, on Planet Axis, the one where he is smart and actually goes out with girls, he can believe this drivel.
Posted by: Almiranta at June 19, 2006 10:58 PM
Post a comment

I just don't get that poll, anyway, that shows Dems being favored. They haven't had a decent policy in years. All they can do is obstruct and attack Bush. Why would anyone want to vote for people like that?!
We shall see but really the Dems have done themselves a serious disservice with, what has been until recently, a dogmatic and baseless assertion of certain victory. Even before the '04 elections and certainly after, any historical analysis of the numbers show that for the Dems to TURN either house they would have to SWEEP all the close races. This is especially true for the Senate. Hey, even if you are a proud Braves fan, even if they have done well for the first half of the season, would you really bet, at that point, not that they would win the Series but in FOUR GAMES? The Dems may make some gains. Personally I think they will lose seats in both houses but I'm not betting my tax refund. But anyone who thinks they will turn either house is declaring a sweep across the board. It just ain't happenin'. But we'll see.
Part of me hopes the dems win a majority of the contests. Why? Because it really would discredit these "Rove steals the elections! There is no freedom! democracy is dead!" idiots. Then again, in the same breath they say Rove stole the election while being completely confident they will win the 08 election. Hypocrits, just wan't something to complain about.
Of course, discrediting a liberal is like shooting a turkey after it's been taken out of the oven
Jeez, MarK and Mattt, his blog should be limited to only 2 new postings a day. It gets too cluttered. Half the stuff that goes on here is sheer crap.
Wow, you know that you are hurting when you are looking to Cheney, which has a 12% approval rating with the American people to boost morale.
I guess he missed the poll showing 66% of people thought that democrats could do better on the war on terror. Or the one that showed that nearly 70% said the country and aconomy were on the wrong track.
Hannity seems to forget that it wa 8 years between attacks on Clinton's watch, so using his logic, CLinton was better at protecting the homeland
Canuck...if it's sheer crap why are you continuing to come back?
It's like a Canadian convention here half the day.
66% of the people that Democrats could do better on terror....link please Axis.
By the way Axis...USS COLE...CLINTON'S WATCH. KHOBAR TOWERS...CLINTON'S WATCH. US AFRICAN EMBASSIES...CLINTON'S WATCH. OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING...CLINTON'S WATCH.
Etc, etc
Sure you want to play this game?
Warrior,
He's about to claim that the Embassy grounds isn't American soil. Wait for it ...
LOL @ WARRIOR!!
What planet are you on man?!? The worst terrorist attack in the history of the nation at home or abroad was on Bush's watch, with a memo on his desk titled "BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE INSIDE US" and contents including "using commercial jetlines as weapons". Layover from Clinton? I guess if you want to use that logic than all those attacks that happened during Clinton were layovers from Bush and Reagan... I mean gee, Bush was only in office a YEAR and a HALF when we were attacked...
Speaking of polls, "It's too soon to tell whose number is up."
Cheney hasn't been right about too much in the last six years, so I doubt he's right this time-after all its his fault our foreign policy got hijacked by the neocons, and he helped Rummy plan the war in Iraq.
Hey Warrior- Lay off the Canucks-what does it matter if they're American liberals or Canadian liberals-you're going to use the same old attack mode anyway. Lets not be xenophobes at "Blogs for Bush"-it sets a bad example for the illegal immigrants.
Steve
Bush was "on watch" for 8 months when 9/11 happened. With the magical and perfect presidency of the vaginal one that preceded him, how could he expect anything less than all the terrorists were already dealt with?
Secondly, Bush inherited a recession because of the vaginal one and was a bit busy trying to turn that around since the dot.com bubble had finally burst and reality was setting in that the economy of the late 1990's was built on fantasy.
kritter....I have problems with people from another country screaming about how "mean" and "terrible" and inhumane we are as Americans when they are smashing the brains of 350,000 defenseless seals every year.
I don't support the seal hunt at all, I think its cruel and inhuman, especially the way they go about it.
But killing of seals and killing of PEOPLE are not on the same level are they?
That depends Axis...when we're killing Zarqawi, Usay, Qusay, terrorists abounds....I'd say it's not only good, it's great.
Seals, after all are innocent. Many people are not.
If it's all the same to you, I'll continue to question the morality of a people that slaughters 350,000 innocent seals each year in the same way you question our morality even though we are trying to eliminate bad guys...a distinction you simply refuse to recognize.
yes, those are justified, however the tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis that died when you dropped 40-50 000 bombs on Iraqi cities is a different story.
Chaney also said the insurection was in its last throes TWO YEARS AGO!
Gee, Warrior, I didn't think you'd blame the entire nation of Canada for the actions of a few. Do you hate the Japanese as well? They are planning to begin allowing whaling, after a twenty-year hiatus. Whales are highly intelligent mammals that communicate with sonar signals to each other. Lets make sure no one from Japan posts here about American policy.
BTW, as a typical bleeding heart liberal, I do care about the seals, and can give you a link to PETA, but I highly doubt you'd find their lefty goals compatible with your conservatism.
In my opinion, it would be bad if American troops would leave Iraq. It would destabilize the country imediately, no matter if it was right or wrong to start this war. Italian troops (2000 something...) will leave the country. Ok, let make a more complex comment:
My first theory is that the european countries, such as mine (Germany) should take more responsibility. Our parliament gave ok to deploy troops to the Congo. Thats the first and important step. France, Britain, Germany - the had colonies in Africa. And that created the worse situation we have there today. So, this should be our next Mission (also of the USA).
And, as President Bush said, Iraq needs more energy. But I hope its not atomic power he was thinking of. Last Year (?) Bush talked about small atomic power plants, especially for the third world. I hope thats not going to happen.
Thats my second theory: Send military to poor countries, then stabilize the situation, build regernative energy (25th part of africa with solar cells - enough energy for the whole world) and with enough energy, the poverty, the terrorism, illness and war will stop rising. Thats a totaly new form of war.
The reason for nearly each war was a shortage energy. Think about it, WWII had its reason also there. The golden 20ies, economy crash...
The lack of energy is the reason for idealogies that mislead people intor fanatism and terrorism. Poverty is a result of not enough energy.
But the situation now the world is handling war, illness and terroism is like filling a bottom-less hole with water (remember the OK for the new 60 something billion dollars for Iraq). Take a small part of that 60 billion and invest it into regenerative energy. Oil is getting more expensive, and also uranium. In 20 years, the sun will cost the same as today, not so atomic power or oil. So, Bush was right, talking about the Energy in Iraq, but Im not sure what kind of energy he wants to install there...
The world is getting more complex, but at the same time as easy to control like a mobilphone - thats how many people thnink. But it isn't like that.
Lets not wait until US think tanks are writing about it.
By the way: Good luck to the American soccer team!
Yes, we should have put Air Marshalls on planes. We should have made our airports more secure. We could have done something, instead of absolutely nothing, after our embassies and the USS Cole were bombed. We could have hired more agents who speak Arabic. We could have ... We should have ... and the list goes on.
We can easily place the blame of 9/11 on both administrations (of course, I place most of the blame on the murdering scumballs).
Our main focus is not what we could have or should have done, but what we can and should do NOW to prevent any future attacks. And the fact that we have not been attacked in the US is an accomplishment we should all be happy about.
And Canadians, you should be relieved you finally have someone in power who is going to put forth anti-terror policies. Just because you recently discovered the 17 terrorists plotting against your country doesn't mean there aren't others.
kimberly4bush, do you agree with the Bush administrations stance on 9/11 that it should never be fully investigated to determine exactly what happened, what was known beforehand and what was done or not done?
No, I do not agree with that. I know the neorads are bent on re-opening up an investigation on 9/11. I do not agree with their motive, which is to blast Bush. We ALL know there were mistakes made, but not only by the current administration, but by past administrations. I would like a more thorough investigation so we can correct mistakes and prevent another 9/11.
However, like I said before, we need to focus on NOW. There are thousands of pages of documents and thousands of hours of audiotape discovered in Iraq and in other raids that have yet to be transcribed. This is where we need to put our manpower and resources, not on a lengthy and costly investigation. That can come later.
Jan: Although poverty may be the reason some join in the jihad against the "infidels", the real motivator, and the reason why AQ was formed, was not poverty. If it were, Bin Laden would have used his wealth to build power plants, etc. If AQ and their ilk wanted prosperity, they would seek to emulate the United States, not to destroy it.
Here is a good article on terrorism and how we can continue to fight against it:
A key aspect of these groups is their strong ideology. The members are motivated by divine command and actually believe that God is sending them on their mission. A terrorist organization motivated by divine command is a much greater threat than other kinds of terrorist organizations because it is not possible to compromise with such a group. Furthermore, Islamic radicals believe in the need to spread their version of Islam all over the world and see the vast majority of Muslims as infidels, as well, and therefore as targets.
Before I take off for the day, I'd like us all to take a moment to pray for the safety of the two US soldiers kidnapped by the terrorists. May God grant them a safe and swift return.
Why kritter, you guys have no problem blaming the entire US military as evil based on the actions of a few.
Axis has no problem blaming the USA for the actions of a few. If you can't accept a retort then stop the crap.
You can't have it both ways.
I don't know where my original post went ... and I don't want to spend the time to rewrite it! :-(
Axis: Actually ... I don't. However, my desire to reopen a 9/11 investigation is not to find evidence the Bush Administration made mistakes. We ALL already know that. The neorads, despite this knowledge, want to have more ammunition to justify their hatred for President Bush. I want to have a thorough investigation so we can learn from the mistakes made to make sure we don't suffer another 9/11. Why do you want it?
I hope everyone takes a moment to pray for the two missing US troops. May God grant their safe and swift release.
Axis: Actually ... I don't. However, my desire to reopen a 9/11 investigation is not to find evidence the Bush Administration made mistakes. We ALL already know that. The neorads, despite this knowledge, want to have more ammunition to justify their hatred for President Bush. I want to have a thorough investigation so we can learn from the mistakes made to make sure we don't suffer another 9/11. Why do you want it?
-- I would like to know exactly what happened. Its well known that members of the Bush administration wrote a document in 1999 called PNAC, where they spell out a plan for sonquering the middle east. That plan on page 51, spelled out a need for "another pearl harbour" in order for americans to support the neo-con agenda. 9 months after Bush takes office, America has another pearl harbour. Now, PNAC announced last week, they are closing their office as they have achieved their goals
Add to this the extreme unlikelyhood that 19 hijackers with box cutters could defeat the entire civil air defense, NORAD, Air Force and Pentagon security. Or that the trade towers are the FIRST metal building in world history to collapse from fire, or why they fell EXACTLY as they would have if demolished with explosives. Or how building 7 could find itself rigged with explosives so the building owner could "take it down", when such a demolition takes weeks and weeks of planning ahead of time. OR why the building owner took out a 10 billion insurance policy just 2 weeks before 9/11. OR how George Bush's BROTHER, who was in charge of security at the WTC, has his contract due to expire on Sept 11.
So would like to know what happened, who knew about it, what they did about it, or what they did not know and who was involved. In all likelyhood, they were aided and abetted, wether known to the hijackers or unknown, so it is important to find out in order that the ones guilty to punished rather than allowed to get away with killing 3000 people
Axis: First, thanks for the great laugh.
I'd like you to post a reliable link about the 1999 document and the announcement. They're web site is still up and current.
There are hundreds of engineers and architects who explain in detail why the WTT collapsed. And Marvin Bush served on the Stratesec board of directors from 1993 through 1999. His LAST term ended in JUNE 2000.
Gotta run. Here'sa good site for you to check out in your spare time.
Here you go, the PNAC Document from the PNAC Website
Scroll down to page 63 pardon is the correct page in the PDF document, you will see
"Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor."
I was not talking about Stratesec, was talking about Securacom, the company backed by Saudi Oil Interests that Marvin was a board members of. They were in charge of security on 9/11.
Here you go, the PNAC Document from the PNAC Website
Scroll down to page 63 pardon is the correct page in the PDF document, you will see
"Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor."
I was not talking about Stratesec, was talking about Securacom, the company backed by Saudi Oil Interests that Marvin was a board members of. They were in charge of security on 9/11.
You read that statement one way and I read it for what it is. In fact, I must have read right over that statement because I never once thought, Aha! They wanted 9/11 to happen so they could devise their evil plan of taking over the world! Did you bother to read the entire document?
Both companies are related. Marvin Bush joined Securacom's board of directors in 1993 as part of a new management team hired when Securacom separated from Burns and Roe, and he remained on the board of directors until 2000. What are the responsibilities of a member on a Board of Directors? Do you honestly believe because Marvin was a member on the board, he was responsible for security? And if so, was he solely responsible for security? And if we was, was he solely responsible for security on 9/11/2001 when he was no longer on the board?
I don't understand your statement about the hijackers ...
Add to this the extreme unlikelyhood that 19 hijackers with box cutters could defeat the entire civil air defense, NORAD, Air Force and Pentagon security.
And the statement about building 7 is a new one for me. But I'll have to revisit that later because I've got more fun things to do!
Ciao.
I see to recall that people that speculated about the holocaust were initially called "conspiracy theorists" at first also, until the truth was known.
Building 7 was a big part of the whole thing. It was officially demolished and numerous commercial dmolition experts have gone on record to state that such a controlled demolition would require weeks of planning and strategic placement of charges so the building would fall in its own footprint instead of toppling over into city streets.
---------
Larry Silverstein, the owner of the WTC complex, admitted on a September 2002 PBS documentary, 'America Rebuilds' that he and the NYFD decided to 'pull' WTC 7 on the day of the attack. The word 'pull' is industry jargon for taking a building down with explosives. This admission is very interesting as it would require weeks of preparation and planning in order to safely demolish such a structure to ensure it falls in its own footprint and not on city streets.
Larry Silverstein on PBS explaining that they had decided to "pull" building 7 after it caught fire later in the afternoon on September 11th, 2001. Any commercial demolition expert will agree that it is not possible to safely rig such a tall building for demolition in a few hours.
This again ties into firefighter accounts of hearing demolition style explosions just before the fall of the twin towers. Many independent demolition experts have stated that it simply would not be possible to setup and demolish such a structure in a few hours unless explosive charges and demolition plans had already been in place prior to the attack. If explosive charges had been in place before the attack on WTC 7, it is also conceivable that they were also in place in the Twin Towers and that the collapse of those buildings had also been actually controlled demolitions.
In February of 2002 Silverstein Properties won $861 million from Industrial Risk Insurers to rebuild on the site of WTC 7. Silverstein Properties' estimated investment in WTC 7 was $386 million so the collapse of building 7 resulted in a net profit of over $500 million. Silverstein also had leased the entire WTC complex just 6 weeks before 9/11, of which Silverstein Properties invested only $15 million toward the total purchase-price of $3.2 Billion for a 99-year lease on holdings worth an estimated $8 billion. The low-rise office buildings WTC 4, 5, and 6, and 400,000 square feet of retail space were included with the Twin Towers in this deal. Upon signing the 99 year lease, he had taken out a record insurance policy on the buildings, insured for $3.5 Billion against any claim. Silverstein argued that the planes striking the trade towers were 2 separate events and so was entitled to $7 Billion, which would have doubled his 10 year total investment. The Silverstein lease agreement also contained an escape clause that voided Silverstein's ongoing obligations in the event that the buildings were struck by an act of terrorism. This would allow Silverstein to fully collect on the insurance policy while eliminating the ongoing leaseholding costs for the destroyed WTC complex. Silverstein Properties were finally awarded $3 Billion, in an insurance payout that was initially seeking $7 Billion, so its safe to say that the 9/11 attack was profitable for Silverstein. Additionally, Silverstein is currently in negotiations with the New York Port Authority to rebuild the WTC in a deal which will see the port authority assuming the majority of the rebuilding costs.
In an article in the Journal of the Minerals, Metals, and Materials Society and in subsequent interviews, Thomas Eagar, an engineering professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, explains why: steel loses 50 percent of its strength at 1,200 degrees F; 90,000 liters of jet fuel ignited other combustible materials such as rugs, curtains, furniture and paper, which continued burning after the jet fuel was exhausted, raising temperatures above 1,400 degrees F and spreading the inferno throughout each building. Temperature differentials of hundreds of degrees across single steel horizontal trusses caused them to sag--straining and then breaking the angle clips that held the beams to the vertical columns. Once one truss failed, others followed. When one floor collapsed onto the next floor below, that floor subsequently gave way, creating a pancaking effect that triggered each 500,000-ton structure to crumble. Conspiricists argue that the buildings should have fallen over on their sides, but with 95 percent of each building consisting of air, they could only have collapsed straight down.
Link.
On September 9, 2005, Mr. Dara McQuillan, a spokesman for Silverstein Properties, issued the following statement on this issue:
Seven World Trade Center collapsed at 5:20 p.m. on September 11, 2001, after burning for seven hours. There were no casualties, thanks to the heroism of the Fire Department and the work of Silverstein Properties employees who evacuated tenants from the building.
The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) conducted a thorough investigation of the collapse of all the World Trade Center buildings. The FEMA report concluded that the collapse of Seven World Trade Center was a direct result of fires triggered by debris from the collapse of WTC Tower 1.
In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building.
Later in the day, the Fire Commander ordered his firefighters out of the building and at 5:20 p.m. the building collapsed. No lives were lost at Seven World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.
As noted above, when Mr. Silverstein was recounting these events for a television documentary he stated, “I said, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life. Maybe the smartest thing to do is to pull it.” Mr. McQuillan has stated that by “it,” Mr. Silverstein meant the contingent of firefighters remaining in the building.
The National Institute of Standards and Technology has stated unequivocally, “NIST has seen so evidence that the collapse of WTC 7 was caused by bombs, missiles, or controlled demolition,” in its Collapse of WTC 7 report (p. 6). NIST’s working hypothesis for the collapse of WTC 7 is that it was caused by the collapse of a critical column due to “fire and/or debris induced structural damage.” There was substantial damage to WTC 7 when the nearby WTC 1 tower collapsed and fires began shortly afterwards. Also, WTC 7 was a very unusual building because it was built over an existing Con-Edison power generation substation, which contained two large 6,000 gallon fuel tanks for the emergency generation of power. The fuel from these tanks could have contributed to the intense heat that apparently weakened the supporting columns in WTC 7.
Kimberly, that report was issued around September 11th. After that, many details that were reported were found to be untrue.
Larry Silverstein, the owner of the WTC complex, admitted on a September 2002 PBS documentary, 'America Rebuilds' that he and the NYFD decided to 'pull' WTC 7 on the day of the attack. The word 'pull' is industry jargon for taking a building down with explosives.
This is a fact, he went on the record and admitted that Building 7 was demolished with explosives. Read the PBS transcripts yourself if you don't believe it.
Axis: Did you read my post?
The conspiracy theory on 9/11 has been debunked and debunked and debunked.
Sorry to burst your bubble ...
kimberly, how exactly do you debunk something which has never been investigated????
You haven't burst any bubble sister, in fact a poll taken late last year shows well over 80% of americans firmly believe that there is much more to the 9/11 story than has been let on.
The limited committee in congress showed exactly that there was much more to the story. How much more is still to be determined by a full investigation, which is left to the democrats since your republicans are too chicken to do it for fear it will reveal GOP wrongdoing or incompetance.
Democrats will get to the truth and expose any lies and wrong doing, we always do. Thats what we do. You republicans lie, break laws and are corrupt, we democrats expose you and toss your asses in prison. We bring balance back to the force
Warrior-
As far as I know, I've never blamed the U.S. military for anything. I HAVE blamed Bush, Cheney and Rummy for planning this fiasco, but I salute anyone serving in the military right now. My nephew is in the Marines, active duty, and my dad was in the Air Force during WWII, and in the reserves for twenty years after that, so calling me anti-military because I think we are undermanned and way over our heads in Iraq, won't fly.
You haven't burst any bubble sister, in fact a poll taken late last year shows well over 80% of americans firmly believe that there is much more to the 9/11 story than has been let on.
Your right Axis, we believe there is much more to the story than has been told! As a matter of fact I think it was a setup from the beginning! I believe there were secret meetings between bin ladled and some high government officials! I think they hatched a plan to destroy the credibility of the united states and to sabotage an administration in it's first few months in office. It's too bad Bill & Hill didn't choose a more compitent man than Bin ladeled & Zarqawi! They seem to be having issues with carrying out the der clintonian legacy! Bwahahaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaaahaaaaaaa! You guys really don't see what a bunch of asses you look like to the rest of the world! *snicker*
Democrats will get to the truth and expose any lies and wrong doing, we always do. Thats what we do. You republicans lie, break laws and are corrupt, we democrats(will Jefferson) expose you and toss your asses in prison. We bring balance back to the force
We have been waiting for you pacifist to do that for four years now doofus! Don't you think we would have jumped on the band wagon if you could have produced some SOLID evidence, and maybe a CONVICTION or two(I would have, believe it or not)! Maybe the Bushes can rule the world with idiots like yourself investigating. So sad that Bill & Hill couldn't pull it off though eh! So sad for you that is! Hope your EXPOSE` doesn't blow up in your face!
so calling me anti-military because I think we are undermanned and way over our heads in Iraq, won't fly.
Posted by: kritter at June 18, 2006 05:09 PM
little advice kritter, talk to the men on the ground if your want the real story, then draw your political conclusions. And I'm not talking about the one 1/10,000 that comes back with a gyllenhall chip on his shoulder!
bearman- I'm sure the men on the ground are committed to their mission and their country, but that doesn't mean that they can analyze the entire situation. Declaring the mission a success, unfortunately doesn't make it so. There has been so much prematurely positive spin coming out of Iraq from the administration, that few Americans believe anything they hear from their government about this war. I believe Murtha and Biden when they say there is no strategy, because that is how this war has been fought. Seven retired generals came out and told us that Rumsfeld wanted to go in with a small strike force , and had no interest in nation-building. As a result, we have today's chaos. When I see that there's security on the streets, higher rates of employment for Iraqis, and more than four hours a day of electricity, then it will look like progress. Our soldiers are out working to rebuild Iraq, but insurgents follow behind them and destroy what they've built. That's what makes this war so frustrating and expensive. It has been mismanaged from the start, and the death of one terrorist doesn't change that fact.
I wish P.M. Maliki the best of luck in his quest for security and democracy in Iraq-he's got a tough road ahead of him. But Baghdad is still too dangerous for reporters or visiting dignitaries to leave the highly fortified Green Zone. Pres. Bush had to have absolute secrecy even to visit Maliki in the Green Zone.
bearman- I'm sure the men on the ground are committed to their mission and their country, but that doesn't mean that they can analyze the entire situation.
Noone can kritter, that's the whole point! You are expecting perfection out of an imperfect world with imperfect people before you declare victory! You see we "military types" declared victory when the Iraqi army fell in two weeks, we declared victory when saddaams sons had bullets in their heads, we declared victory when saddaam was captured, we declared victory when an Iraqi government was formed, we do not consider it a failure that civilians are dying when it is they that are lining up by the hundreds to become soldiers & law enforcment even in the wake of many bombings against people such as that(course the liberal mentality is that they are doing that because they are SOOOOOOOOO poor)! Sorry, I prefer my fantasy(reality) over your fantasy of what is going on in Iraq.
Declaring the mission a success, unfortunately doesn't make it so.
You people don't grasp what exactly the mission is, gee what a suprise!
There has been so much prematurely positive spin coming out of Iraq from the administration, that few Americans believe anything they hear from their government about this war.
Please Please, tell me you are joking! If your serious, then you need some serious help! Do you know how easy it would be to win this war if we would just ignore the media, start up a strong propaganda campaign and make the Iraqi people believe we are their saviours and the terrorist are hellions on earth! I think we could make a pretty strong case and brainwash a whole bunch of people!!! It'll never happen, open your eyes kritter, the politico's that have latched onto the war as their wave can't prove a goshdarn thing! The American people are worn down by the constant negativity that comes from the mouth of the "Declared liberal" MSM! Your right about one thing, the people don't know what to believe, but I guarantee that they believe the MSM even less than the administration! The polls reflect the TYPICAL wear & tear of ANY war on any people, it doesn't reflect a big tidal wave change in America, as much as libs would like to think it does! I would love to see more polls out reflecting the dumps that the MSM is finding itself in.......hmmmmmm, where are those polls anyways? No matter, polls are a joke!
I believe Murtha and Biden when they say there is no strategy, because that is how this war has been fought. Seven retired generals came out and told us that Rumsfeld wanted to go in with a small strike force , and had no interest in nation-building. As a result, we have today's chaos.
Todays chaos is a result of years of ignoring freaks like saddaam, Kim jung ill, and Kadafi, and depending on PACIFISM! Todays chaos will be non-existent five years from now & Iraq will be another democratic success where the peoples will is what happens not saddaams, hmmmmm........sounds like a better world! Sorry, michael jackson singing about a better world & Axis dreaming of a better world doesn't make it so, kinda like your successful mission statement!
When I see that there's security on the streets, higher rates of employment for Iraqis, and more than four hours a day of electricity, then it will look like progress. Our soldiers are out working to rebuild Iraq, but insurgents follow behind them and destroy what they've built. That's what makes this war so frustrating and expensive. It has been mismanaged from the start, and the death of one terrorist doesn't change that fact.
Like I said before kritter, you need to talk to the boys on the ground, all you have is what the MSM feeds you, "bull shiznit". I however talk to the boyz on the ground all the time & your just flat out wrong about the re-building & about the insurgency! The American military is doing a fantastic job & the Generals in charge would show the "retired generals" a thing or two if they would pull their heads from their arse for ten minutes!
I wish P.M. Maliki the best of luck in his quest for security and democracy in Iraq-he's got a tough road ahead of him. But Baghdad is still too dangerous for reporters or visiting dignitaries to leave the highly fortified Green Zone. Pres. Bush had to have absolute secrecy even to visit Maliki in the Green Zone.
Posted by: kritter at June 19, 2006 09:38 AM
Duh, what did you think it would be a walk in the park! This brings us right back to my first statement about you expecting a perfect world & right away to declare success. Yes, there are still evil men about Iraq that would kidnap & kill Iraqi women & children if they thought it would serve their purpose! Their days are numbered however. The military(iraqi & U.S.) are hot on their trail and the people are sick & tired of the deaths of their friends and family! Patience young grasshopper, freedom is their portion as much as it is yours or mine!
axis' natterings remind me of the absolute wild-eyed hysteria about the so-called "Downing Street Memo" which supposedly showed some wicked plot to deceive, based on the use of the word "fixed". I am not going to look it up and quote it for two reasons: One is that axis simply does not command enough respect to warrant putting out the effort, and one is that he would ignore anything I said anyway.
But I spent a lot of time in England, and fully understood the explanation of the Brits that the whole thing was based on a level of cultural ignorance. Being British, they were more polite than that, but that's what it came down to.
To those seeking desperately for conspiracy, ANY conspiracy, the word "fixed" HAD to have mean "rigged" or set up in some way meant to deceive. Who cares if, in England, it merely means "set"? It's used all the time in exactly that way---"Is the time of the dinner fixed?" "We've fixed the seating arrangements."
We use a similar form here, such as using a "fixative" to set something so it will not move. But the snickering, giggling, conspiracy addicts were desperate for a new one to sink their nubby little teeth into, and the word "fixed" gave them an excuse.
The sneerers, the yip-yappers, and of course dear axis of insanity, all prove that reality is not only not a requirement for the Liberal Left, it would only get in the way.
People who travel and interact with people from different countries and cultures soon learn that words mean different things in different cultures, even when we think we are speaking the same language. A perfect example is the American ski instructor working in Australia who got punched out by an irate husband when he cheerfully informed the man that his wife was just fine, she only fell on her fanny.
But ignorant people who cling to, and flaunt, their ignorance simply do not have time for insignificant niceties such as what words really mean to those who use them. It's ever so much more fun to find lies, conspiracies, and plots around every corner.
When you've been thought of as stupid all your life, when you've been the butt of jokes, it's great to have a niche where you can feel smarter than anyone else. And what easier way to feel superior than to know, absolutely KNOW, things that no one else knows? All you have to do is overlook the fact that no one else "knows" this stuff because it simply is not true. You have found the only way you can possibly ever feel better than anyone else, and if it demands a total allegiance to a bizarre combination of hatred, fantasy, and egomania, hey, it's what works for you. "You" being axis, steve, TEO, and so on.
So go on believing in whatever your cut-and-paste loony theory is supposed to "prove". Next week you can explain how Bush blew up the levees. A collapsing building makes a series of loud explosive-like noises---who woulda thunk it? A few million tons of water wipes out some dirt banks---quelle surprise! A war that the president warned would take decades or possibly generations takes, so far, three years--the sky is falling!! People die in war---nobody expected THAT! It's all GOT to be a wicked plot! Secret indictments! Damning memos! Supressed reports! It never stops!!!
This constant state of alarm, outrage, and invention explains the feeble grasp on reality shown by you blog vandals---your hypersensitive antennae can now pick up vibrations where vibrations simply do not exist, and then spin them into elaborate, albeit unreal, stories. But your persistent presence where you clealy do not belong is proof that this blog site is a threat to many.
Need proof that axis is totally, dementedly, delusional? Here...
"Democrats will get to the truth and expose any lies and wrong doing, we always do. Thats what we do. You republicans lie, break laws and are corrupt, we democrats expose you and toss your asses in prison. We bring balance back to the force"
See, on Planet Axis, the one where he is smart and actually goes out with girls, he can believe this drivel.