lieutenant kerry should shut his quiche-hole since he doesn't have a swiftboat in the fight.

"swiftboat" (v): the embarassing result from the disclosure of negative info which, tho truthful, is at odds w one's public persona.

Based on the treasure trove of information they found on Zarqawi and the major military crackdown this week...I'd say things are starting to look good.

They will never be perfect in an area where people have no problem blowing themselves up, but things are looking up.

Today's news from Iraq has been outstanding....and the Democrats are sad which is pathetic!

Prediction: There will be a War Party and a Peace Party. And the Gordian Knot will be formed. Peace

I would have rather seen the quote:

"you know there bucky, after September 11th we knew the the world was changed after September 11th. You know slick, Septmeber 11th was a day that the the Iragi people would be free of the tyrants that helped support September 11th. Septembr 11th was a signal to all who view September 11th as a day in which tyranny and injustice were put on trial. September 11th should be viewed not as September 11th "just another day" but as September 11th "a new day". Although Saddam was not associated with September 11th we can still use September 11th as the turning point for freedom in the world. September 11th should be remembered as September 11th with a doctrine of peace declaring that September 11th was a day in which we will always remember those who perished on September 11th.

Unquote.

Can any of you lazy thinkers tell me exactly what our plan is, regarding Iraq?

Claiming we will not "cut and run", isn't a plan. It is a way to demonize an opponent, yet it still provides no goals for removing ourselves from this civil war.

How do we know we have won? Do we have to see a 40%, 50%, 90% reduction in daily violence?

You see, you guys want to complain about the other side of the isle not having a plan, yet all you can keep saying is that we are turning corners, or marching freedoms, or some other stupid placard that calms the fears of the sheep you herd under your big tent, but at the end of the day you are just as clueless as the Demopublicans on the subject; so are we just going to continue letting our boys and girls get picked off in "minor" combat operations, day after day, until an epiphany strikes Rummy?

TEO,
Asking for an exact date for pulling out is like asking for exact dates it will rain next year. You know it will happen, but you can't tell the exact days.

Can any of you lazy thinkers tell me exactly what our plan is, regarding Iraq?

TEO, have you really been paying that little attention, and, if so, then who's the "lazy thinker"?

Retired Spook

Since it was Bush & his administration who thought it was a good idea to invade & occupy Iraq, shouldn't it be their responsibility to have a plan for withdrawal. Why should that job fall on the shoulders of the Democratic party?

The Democrats need to come up with a plan because they want the White House back. Just saying they're going in a new direction by increasing min wage, healthcare for all, blah, blah, blah, isn't going to cut it.

BTW, I'd like to know just which direction they plan on going ... to the far left, the left, or to the center. Seems to me they're gonna need a GPS to figure it out.

TEO makes a good point. What is the Administration's plan? Can any of you tell me the specifics? What are the metrics for measuring success, and what is the exit strategy? I've asked for specifics before, but no one has the answer. (And "Stay the course" or "As Iraqi's stand up, we'll stand down" is not a specific, so try again.)

You characterize the Democrats as being in disarray about Iraq, or supporting a "cut and run" strategy. Yet all you can say about Republican strategy is: its the opposite of the Dems. Well, the opposite of "cut and run" is "never leave". Is that the Bush strategy?

"...I'd say things are starting to look good."

I have heard and read that so many times it doesn't have much weight anymore. Everyday people are dying,Iraqis and Americans, which doesn't look good to me. No doubt parts of Iraq are better than before but other parts are much, much worse. I'm glad the military finally is taking a big stand in Afghanistan. This site doesn't comment on the Taliban ruling most of the country again, instead it focuses on a hotel with cable TV and internet access in the capital. Wanna talk about cutting and running?...just look to afghanistan. It is a good step forward. hopefully its not a bombing run and a quick offensive then back off major offensives for another year. Yea, we have troops there but they are not effective as they should be.

Neither party has a plan. Certain individuals have plans for withdrawal but they aren't realistic. Its to early to consider massive troop withdrawal in my opinion. We will always be in Iraq, the massive embassy being built and military bases prove that. I also think the Iraqi people are going to need guidance and protection for a long time.

Its been a very bad several weeks for the Demorats. They failed at the polls over the CA 50 race which polls said they had a 15 point lead.
They have also been painted successfully as serial tax raisers, allowing illegals to vote (CA 50 race), against the marriage amendment; and now bitterly divided over their foreign policy (Iraq).

I hope that a fight over a Supreme Court justice vacancy erupts in the fall.

Please don't say that Hillary supports the war - she is lying, she is only supporting it because it is what a "would-be" commander chief would. Anything she says she supports is "SUSPECT"!

Hey Blind Eye,

"Can any of you lazy thinkers tell me exactly what our plan is, regarding Iraq?"

I can't, but the Bush Administration can: Strategy for Victory: Defeating the Terrorists and Training Iraqi Security Forces.

Then there's the National Strategy for Victory in Iraq, issued in November 2005.

We actually won the war back in Mar-Apr of 2003. In three weeks, we defeated the Iraqi military forces in record time, with record low collateral damage. We did this with a numerically smaller force than the Iraqi's possessed, when military planners recommend a military force three times larger than that in defense. In other words, we should have had three times the military force Iraq possessed when we invaded. Instead, we did it with a force smaller than the Iraqis possessed. Another incredible accomplishment.

What we are now doing is attempting to stabilize Iraq so that their Security Forces can provide their for their own security.

The Democrat/liberal leaders who have declared that we have lost the war, do so for a couple of reasons:

#1 - They will do anything and everything to undermine and damage the Bush Administration. Cases in point: all the false scandles - Plamegate, AWOLgate, Katrina, NSA programs, etc.

#2 - They want to exact revenge for the Republicans impeaching President Clinton for committing Perjury and Lying to a Grand Jury.

#3 - They have lost the White House, the House of Representatives, the Senate, and slowly, but surely, the Judiciary. They will do anything and everything to get their lost power back.

#4 - They still cannot accept that George W. Bush defeated them in the 2000 election, the won reelection in 2004. They have an obsessive hatred of the President.

#5 - They are un-patriotic, for the above four reasons. Anyone who puts their personal and polotical ambitions above the needs of the nation are un-patriotic in my book.

shouldn't it be their responsibility to have a plan for withdrawal?

It should be, CO, and I'm not sure what makes you think they don't, but your question illustrates(probably unintentionally) the basic difference between Liberals and Conservatives when it comes to military conflict. At the top of Liberals' "plan" agenda is the plan for withdrawal or "exit strategy" as they so fondly refer to it. Conservatives primary plan is for victory, and Bush has explained ad nauseam what victory entails. Sorry you haven't been listening. The biggest single problem (among many) I have with Liberals is that the words "win" and "victory" are not in their vocabulary.

Kimberly, I'm not sure they're smart enough to use GPS. I'd prefer to leave them lost in the wilderness anyway.

I say it's un-patriotic NOT to use the tag "September 11" in in each and every sentence. If we use September 11th in each and every sentence then maybe, just maybe, the libocrats will remember the atrocities of September 11th. I would like to see W use September 11th in each and everyone of his speeches. We can tie September 11th to Katrina, Medicare, Vet's benefits, Plamegate, on and on. We should have commericals flashing nothing but the words "September 11th". Subliminal injection. Over and over and over. The public will see nothing of substance, just "September 11th". We will begin to repeat it to ourselves unconsciously. Waking, sleeping, driving, thinking. September 11th, September 11th. We can replace FDR's quote with "December 7th, with September 11th, a day of infamy...so let's all band together and do as W does. Tie September 11th to everything we can. Be patriotic!

raker13

I like your enthusiasm on this very important point. Let us never forget the events of September 11.

You use humor as a vehicle, repeating that date over and over to let us know exacttly how important it is we always remember.

Truly, let's all heed raker13's words, and do as W does.

It is for the children.

Canadien Absurdist

"Since it was Bush & his administration who thought it was a good idea to invade & occupy Iraq, shouldn't it be their responsibility to have a plan for withdrawal. Why should that job fall on the shoulders of the Democratic party?"

If anyone specializes in withdrawl, surrender or cowering in fear, it is the Democratic Party.

Wow, what a load of crap!

A-10,

we needed 3x the force for the aftermath, we have obviously proved how impotent we are in controlling the violence on the ground.

You are un-patriotic for your insistence in leaving our military in a situation without proper goals for winning the war.

I would argue with you more, but everything else was verbal sewage, hyperbole, and rhetorical jizz.

Turd, I Blind

How dare you question a-10's patriotism?! Just because he disagrees with you, you call him unpatriotic. That is the last refuse of a pathetically cynical low-life.

You hate America and your hatred of America and President Bush blinds you to any form of reason. For anyone to question another American's patriotism is unacceptable, you treasonous snake.

You don't even deserve to be in this country, Turd. Or are you some Canadian scumbag, slamming a good American?

warriornation: Did you hear we've identified the new AQ leader in Iraq (and pretty quickly, I might add)? Now, the Islamic web site is going to have to replace his silouette with his mugshot.

And this ...
The Iraqi government Thursday said that newly discovered documents from al Qaeda in Iraq revealed information that could destroy the terror network.

"We believe that this is the beginning of the end of al Qaeda in Iraq," said Iraq's national security adviser Mowaffaq al-Rubaie, at a press conference in Baghdad.

He said the seized documentation indicates how al Qaeda is using virtually everyone as a pawn in its fight.

The group was planning to exacerbate already hostile tensions between Iran and the United States in order to climb out of a "bleak" situation in Iraq, according to documents al-Rubaie cited.

Such plans included the delivery of threatening messages attributed to Shiite Iranians and the carrying out of attacks under the guise of Iranian collusion, the Iraqi government cited the documents as saying.

Al Qaeda in Iraq also considered planting information that Iran has ties to terror groups, has been in possession of weapons of mass destruction, and is attempting to carry out terror operations in the West, the documents said, according to the Iraqi government.

Of course, who really knows if the documents really exist ... or if they were planted by the US ... or ... I'll have to check with TEO to see if his contacts have any additional info.

LOL.

oops, I better supply a link to my plagurism:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/15/iraq.main/?eref=yahoo

shouldn't it be their responsibility to have a plan for withdrawal?

It should be, CO, and I'm not sure what makes you think they don't, but your question illustrates(probably unintentionally) the basic difference between Liberals and Conservatives when it comes to military conflict. At the top of Liberals' "plan" agenda is the plan for withdrawal or "exit strategy" as they so fondly refer to it. Conservatives primary plan is for victory, and Bush has explained ad nauseam what victory entails. Sorry you haven't been listening. The biggest single problem (among many) I have with Liberals is that the words "win" and "victory" are not in their vocabulary.

Kimberly, I'm not sure they're smart enough to use GPS. I'd prefer to leave them lost in the wilderness anyway.

Retired Spook: LOL!!

TEO: Yahoo! just posted an article about all of the antiwar, antiBush books coming out this year. I wonder if your logic will apply to them as well. My guess is it will not since these books agree with your point of view.

Gotta get back to my life.

xxxooo

1.The people wanna be free! –Well no friggin DUH!

2.Iraqi police forces should be doing their job –How did this guy get elected again?

3.We should combat IEDs –I’m glad he is listening to the people being blown-up

What kind of drivel is this, he made some history points, and then goes on to talk about integrating police forces, except the reality shows that even the elected government is integrating the militias into the army.

We still have a reality that the police and the militias are one in the same, because people like Sadr and Al-Sistani have the power, and they aren’t going to give it up, mainly because now they can become legitimate through elections.

What goals are set? Nothing more than the same ole’ rhetoric of, “As they stand up, we stand down”; that isn’t a policy, that is “sit around and wait” for something to happen, that is reactionary, not pro-active.

Now, in your second link regarding his “goals” set forth in Nov. 2003, lets analyze the main points here:

1. “We will help the Iraqi people build a new Iraq with a constitutional, representative government that respects civil rights and has security forces sufficient to maintain domestic order and keep Iraq from becoming a safe haven for terrorists”

–Let’s see here, they elected a government, but the warlords still hold sway everywhere outside of the greenzone. The security forces are being accused in the on-going civil war and wide-reaching ethnic cleansing, and still the attacks continue, and are even increasing. MISSION FRIGGIN ACCOMPLISHED, gentlemen!

2. Isolate, Engage, Build: The warlords are part of the process, you have an increasing number of attacks, most of which are being driven not by insurgents, but hometown men and boys, and the building is still anemic, at best.

3. Clear, Hold, Build: The situation is fluid, and the insurgents move from city to city as the military chases them, you have a situation where people in the towns are either scared or willing to help these guys, so we aren’t winning hearts and minds, gentlemen. We don’t have enough guys to actively hold anything, we move from place to place chasing these guys, and they regroup right behind us…we need more boots if we are going to do this right.

4. The last part is an economic track, yet we can’t even provide safety for markets to re-open on a regular basis, that’s a joke all together.

If anyone would like to tell me where the GOALS are here, I am all ears. Instead all I’ve read is the same BS, We need to stop the insurgency, Build more stuff, and Get a viable police force and army working…good to see we are well on the way to achieving those goals!

If anyone would like to try and answer a simple question for me, I would be appreciative:

How do we know when we have won?

How do we know when we have won?

When Bush says we've won.

President Bush's speech in Iraq to our brave troops was fantastic. You could hear the emotion in President Bush's heart and the strong feeling of support and love the troops have for President Bush. The dems better stick to blaming President Bush for the weather because they have no chance with our military. God Bless our troops and God bless President George W. Bush, the greatest president in american history.

james allegro

Your mantra extolling Bush as the greatest president in american history makes me think you are perhaps being facetious. If you indeed believe this to be true, then you must have some basis for this belief. You have indicated that the invasion and occupation of Iraq is one example of this greatness. Would you please list some of his other achievements which, in your eyes, have made him the greatest president in american history?

"How do we know when we have won?

When Bush says we've won."

When the Iraqi people and the Iraqi government stand on their own. It's coming...shame you guys can't get on the same page and applaud the troops and the Iraqi people for their sacrifices. Shame.

Canadian Warrior:

-President Bush has kept this country safe from attack for almost 5 years now.

-President Bush has gotten this country out of the recession he inherited and now presides over the strongest economy in american history.

-President Bush has freed 50 million people and counting, including the next generations in these countries, and has sparked the hope of freedom in countries like Lebanon and the Ukraine.

-President Bush has ended the filling of mass graves, closed the rape rooms, stopped the use of power tools on peoples heads, people tongues being cut out, people tortured and thrown off buildings.

-President Bush's leadership immediately after 9/11 lifted a country up off its feet, like no other leader before him and inspired a country to move forward with resolve.

-Saddam hussein, the worst mass murderer since hitler is now sitting in jail, wearing an orange jumpsuit, making license plates and his two charming sons are now with the virgins.

-Crime in the USA is at a 30 year low. GDP growth is 5.3 percent, unemployment is 4.6 percent, the macroeconomics of minorities is at the best level in american history.

-President Bush personally saved thousands in New Orleans by begging the brain dead mayor and governor to issue an evacuation order when they were not going to and by getting the brain dead mayor to stop encouraging people to return when a second cat 5 was crossing into the gulf.

-President Bush has appointed two excellent conservative judges on the US Supreme Court, the same court where every liberal judge recently voted to take away every citizens property rights.

-President Bush continues to champion the rights and dignity of all life, whether they be a baby in the womb or the disabled woman sitting in a hospital.

-President Bush has a fearless desire to tackle tough issues that no other president in history would dare touch and is willing to take the heat from all sides in order to do what is right.

-President Bush has begun to reform the educational system of our country with the No Child Left Behind Act, which has caused a steady increase in test scores, especially amongst minorites.

-President Bush has given all our senior parents, including mine, cheaper drugs by passing the extremely popular and successful Prescription Drug Program. Now many seniors don't have to decide between eating or getting their medication.

-President Bush, with his dignity, class and character, has brought dignity back to the oval office, after years of disgrace by the prior president.

-President Bush has continued to act to do the right thing, even while enduring the most shameful and baseless attacks that any president in history has had to endure. Forged documents anyone!!

-President Bush has instituted tort reform, intelligence reform, energy reform, corporate reform, reform at the corrupt UN and will continue to pursue immigration reform, social security and medicare reform and tax code reform. All those corporate criminals who did the crime under clinton, are now doing the time under Bush.

-President Bush will continue to push for alternative fuel sources such as ethanol, hydrogen, nuclear and ACTUALLY do something about it. Dems talk a good game, but never did anything about alternative energy. Ironically, President Bush may go down as the greatest environmental president in history if the promise of E85, clean coal, hydrogen and nuclear continue to expand on his watch.

-President Bush will deal with and ACTUALLY do something about the threats of iran, north korea and syria. he will ACTUALLY do something about somolia. He will actually do something about the genocide in Sudan, something he has been pushing at the UN for years, and the libs only recently discovered.

-President Bush also lowered my taxes too. And he has made me proud to be an american.

-I could go on and on and on.

Prediction: There will be a War Party and a Peace Party. And the Gordian Knot will be formed. Peace

Posted by: steve at June 15, 2006 10:31 AM

Hmmmmmmmm......I wonder who's going to win that fight Steve!!!! LOL! Peace!

TEO, you have way to much time on your hands, get a job! Or is this your job?

CO, James just put you in your place, oh wait your already in your place......Canada......that's right, so it really matters very little what you think about ANY of Americas great and not so great presidents!

Bear,

my job keeps me happily here, free to burst your little positive feed-back loops with facts.

It's fun to watch you worms, squirm.

xoxoxo

bearman

Today, we live in a global community. All citizens, regardless of their country of birth, belong to this community. What happens in your country will eventually affect what will happen in other parts of the world. The invasion & occupation of Iraq being a prime example.

So while I have no power to change the presidential policies of your country, I do have a legitimate interest in what happens there.

You, yourself, are no doubt interested in what is taking place on the other side of the globe. Your being a U.S. citizen has no bearing on that, as my being a Canadian citizen has no bearing on my interest in the U.S.

That's what I thought! Some people have all the luck! Getting paid to blog & spout lib talking points. Well, I don't know if your worth what they pay you, but the longer you hang around the better the chances of us talking some sense into you! Also, lay off the acid bro, seeing worms squirming on your screen while trying to have intelligent conversation is just weird! The last time I was sqirming was.........when I asked my father-in-law for my wifes hand in marriage 9 years ago! Sorry to disapoint!

Bear,

Sorry man, left those days far behind me.

...although I do have these colorful frogs, you wanna lick?

xoxoxo

"Today, we live in a global community. All citizens, regardless of their country of birth, belong to this community. What happens in your country will eventually affect what will happen in other parts of the world. The invasion & occupation of Iraq being a prime example."

That's right CO. And terrorism effects that world community too. And since you and the rest of the world refused to anything about it the last 20 years, we are going to be good "NEIGHBORS" and do it for everyone.

Make sure to thank us.

Warriornation

I am sure the world would be very thankful if the U.S. had stayed on course to fight terrorism instead of invading & occupying a country that had nothing to do with the events of 9-11. Remember, before Bush decided on the shock & awe action against Iraq, the world was in your corner.
You only lost support when your supreme leader started an illegal war.

But CO, you guys keep claiming that Iraq is a magnet for terrorists. So if that's the case, while we are in Iraq we are fighting Terrorists.

They're checking in like a roach motel.

See, you can't have it both ways there observer. Try again.

I'm curious are the Canucks on British blogs, Australian blogs, Japanese blogs and other nations that are also part of the Iraqi war or do they just come here to urinate?

Warriornation

Yes, Bush has brought terrorists to Iraq who were not there before the invasion. So I guess it's only natural that you feel the need to correct the situation.

I can't speak for the other Canucks, but I come here to urinate rather than the other coalition
blogs for the simple reason that Bush was the instigator of all this mess.

Warriornation,

You ignore a central problem. This isn't nationality we are fighting, it's an idea.
You can't quantify "victory", there is no signing of surrender, or cease-fire, it is by definition a never-ending war, just like the war on drugs.

Have you even been listening to the people on the ground, man? The "terrorism" that we are fighting is overwhelmingly sectarian in nature, it's called a civil war. What is the point of playing monkey in the middle to two groups that will continue to hate eachother?

Russia's intervention in Afghanistan shows just how appropriate military action is against a homegrown insurgency. We can leave 150,000 troops there for 50 years, and we will continue to see violence, we will continue to see foreign fighters, because the simple fact we are there creates a magnet for them, unfortunately it is a catch-22. The longer we stay to kill bad-guys, the more the bad guys can recruit, which means the more foreign fighters will enter.

Do you understand that we are on the verge of militarizing an entire generation of kids, do you understand what that means? We are going to have an entire generation who are brought up with the idea that the US is their enemy; and much like racism, it will be almost impossible to weed out.

Third Eye,

We want the enemy to hate us because that means we are doing well at making them very afraid. You asked what our plan is in Iraq. Answer is to win the unconventional war on free and democratic societies on the soil of America's enemies. There were no hard dates set for previous wars, so why should this one be different? We accomplish the goal by not panicking and running like we did in Vietnam. The majority of Americans understand this.

Jim,

so you're buying into the idea of this "long war", how egotistical is that? We are going to play knight in shining armor to the princess that is the rest of the world, slaying Islamic dragons the whole way.

It doesn't work like that, short of gathering a world-wide unity on the weeding out of these ideals, without having mainstream, moderate Imams to help us win hearts and minds, we are going to see continuations of the recruiting power of these guys; and no matter what anyone tells you, there hasn't been a missle created that can kill an idea.