How many times will you guys claim Kerry has yet to release his military records when he had done so over a year ago?

And what was so fishy about his first Purple Heart, exactly?

This slandering of Kerry is pitiful but quite amusing since you guys fawn and gush over Bush's staunch defense of Alabama from those pesky communists.

Noonan wroted:

"John Kerry - who, by the way, claims to have served in Vietnam, but won't release his military records to prove it...."

Where all you been, buddy? Sober up! Lookie down below at the date and tell me what you see.

Kerry allows Navy release of military, medical records
Show numerous commendations

By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | June 7, 2005

WASHINGTON -- Senator John F. Kerry, ending at least two years of refusal, has waived privacy restrictions and authorized the release of his full military and medical records.

The records, which the Navy Personnel Command provided to the Globe....

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/06/07/kerry_allows_navy_release_of_military_medical_records/

Binthar beat me to the punch there. This "won't release records" meme just won't die, because people like you, Noonan, want so desperately to believe it.

With respect to his purple heart, see here:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

And this for good measure:

http://news.lp.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/gwbush/bushang.html

ROFL!!! Ok, Mark and other B4B'ers. have at him!!! I have to go to bed...
It always amazes me how a lib will only get some (or none) portion of a story right....

sKerry can blow all the smoke he wishes out of his rump and spew all the false bravado he desires. Until he fully opens his entire military jacket for everyone to see, just as Bush did, he is nothing more than another phony PX (ships store for the Navy, I guess) Hero.

Authorizing the Navy Department to release what they have is the smoke screen I mention. His full and complete records would be located at the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, not the Navy Department.

Claiming to "release records fully" but only granting access to them by 3 friendly reporters, as he did last year, is a dodge. Release them to the Public or independent sources not in his shadow or pocket.

Any claims made by the Swiftees would have been swiftly proven false had he released his complete records to all, unless of course, he cannot prove them false and is hiding something in his records, such as a possible Bad Conduct Discharge.

Well,

Swiftboat is a lesson to the democrats, we now know that there is no low that the Republicans won't go.

They have George "AWOL" Bush and Dick "Draft Dodger" Cheney and they stoop to trying to discredit a highly decorated war veteran, one that actually served, not like the chickhawks in the Whitehouse.

Funny isn't it how all the swift boat people never served on the boat Kerry did and those that were actually on his boat back up his story.

Axis....you're Canadian remember? You don't mean anything to anyone.

No amount of smearing of the war record of John Kerry will actually ease the feelings of inferiority you folks have because he volunteered and served during war while none of you have ever worn the uniform.

You're really pathetic, Mark Noonan: "John Kerry - who, by the way, claims to have served in Vietnam, but won't release his military records to prove it..." I'm sure we never have to worry about Mark Noonan proving anything about his service because there isn't any.

Mark, the point of the NYTimes article was the Kerry is gathering evidence agaisnt the Swiftboat allegations. Show me where Kerry claims that every allegation by Swiftboaters has been proven wrong. Shouldn't be hard to do, it's his mantra afterall.

By the way, have any reaction to that Factcheck.org stuff about his Bronze and Silver Stars?

"those that were actually on his boat back up his story.

That is all we really need to know.

Time for some new material DM, a mosquito buzzing in my ear offers more trouble than your silly insults.

Since that darling of the Right, Ann Coulter, seems to want to limit who can and cannot comment on issues, I propose that unless you were there, that is, served in SEA you refrain from commenting

Since that darling of the Right, Ann Coulter, seems to want to limit who can and cannot comment on issues, I propose that unless you were there, that is, served in SEA you refrain from commenting

Axis,
For the upteenth time, John O'Neill is a Democrat.
Keep Swiftboatin though, its good for the Republicans and prospective voters to witness the assinity of your agenda. You know, reporting for duty....

Axis....you're Canadian remember? You don't mean anything to anyone.

Nothing new needed - it says all that needs to be said with regard to you!

winnowhead As for snopes. They will always spin for the democrats. Here is a example.
My Guy Was Misquoted, Yours Was Paraphrased
OhioGolfer You forgot that the swiftvets were there.

How can a man who refuses to prove he was in Vietnam think anyone would trust him with the Presidency?

Kerry needs to come clean and release his records. He needs to fess up to faking his records and he needs to return his medals. Only when he has done that, would I offer a modicum of respect.

Look, folks, were in a time of war. The person at the time has got to be war-ready. We can't have someone who has never seen war. When something bad happens, the US cannot afford to have some green rookie freeze up at a critical moment.

Ok, It's obvious Kerry was in Vietnam, CoC.That's proven. As for how north he went into Cambodia or not is the question. If you can't see that then you are blind, more so then I thought. As to the extent of his activities over there, it is well documented just look for yourself. the specifics in argument by the Swifties will be backed up eventually. Just like, you say ,the justification for the Iraq war will be.

"The person at the time has got to be war-ready. We can't have someone who has never seen war. When something bad happens, the US cannot afford to have some green rookie freeze up at a critical moment."

LOL! And Bush has seen war? Where? in Alabama? Or getting drunk and driving a car? GW's military record is a joke, A JOKE, and you continue to put him on a pedestal like he's a poster boy for the military. Like he has so much experience with war. Show me those facts and I'll change my mind.

Wow, now you guys are trying to claim Kerry was never in Vietnam?

Haha, how pathetic!

Nirvision,
Correctamundo!
But that doesn't fit into the chickenhawk narrative. It never fails to amaze me that the most adamant detractors of a guy who volunteered for combat duty, was decorated and thrice wounded are equally adamant in their support of people who never served or used political connections to avoid combat or even serving their time.
Did you catch all the press Kos got in Vegas?
Even a MoDo column! I'm shocked nobody looked in on the B4B crowd.

Wow, now you guys are trying to claim Kerry was never in Vietnam?

Haha, how pathetic!

CtoC says "The person at the time has got to be war-ready. We can't have someone who has never seen war."

Will he please tell me what "war" President Bush saw!!!

Paul,

Not denying the Swiftvets. I did not say they could not comment,,, I only suggest that those who have not BEEN there refrain... as per Ann's prescription!!

Paul,

Not denying the Swiftvets. I did not say they could not comment,,, I only suggest that those who have not BEEN there refrain... as per Ann's prescription!!

Ohio Drinker and jqueer

What war has Bush seen? My God, have you guys been living under a rock?

GWB has commanded us through this Global War on Terrorism for almost five years!

Just look at how well Bush performed on Sept. 11 and you'll see how battle is handled. Mr. Bush reacted to the assault instantly, where a weak-kneed guy like Kerry would probably just freeze up.

Axis - Funny isn't it how all the swift boat people never served on the boat Kerry did and those that were actually on his boat back up his story.

Please do some research and learn how the Swiftboats actually operated in Viet Nam prior to making silly assertions.

During the campaign, requests were made to the Records Center with replies of approximately 100 pages of records unable to be released unless sKerry authorized it. What sKerry released last year was virtually what he posted on his website.

The 3 friendly reporters all said they viewed about 30 pages of records, not to stellar a packet for such a war hero that was in the Navy for 12 years (according to his re-reissued DD-214).

Ask yourselves, why won't he simply authorize the release of those additional 100 pages? Where are his pay records and dental records (as was picked over by a fine tooth comb when they pertained to Bush).

If Cheney receiving draft deferrments makes him a draft dodger, what does sKerry's 4 deferrments make him?

sKerry apologists really need to remove their heads and come back in to the sunshine and smell the stench of malignant narcissism their favored boy has about him.

CoC,

Very clever choice of name calling....Very witty. I expected no less from you.

No retort to Kerry actually being IN Vietnam? I expected that as well.

GW has not been in a war prior to the 'Global War on Iraq'...Kerry has. Based on your previous post that "We can't have someone who has never seen war." Well, it seems Kerry has seen a war and would have been the better choice according to your rationale.

It's for the children people!

Nirvision,

Did you read the linked article? Essentially, Kerry got a splinter in his arm - likely accidentally due to his mistaken operation of an grenade launcher - and demanded that it be puffed up into a combat wound.

My Dad's leg was cut up by a Japanese bayonet on Saipan - they simply patched him back up and returned him to duty...he never got a Purple Heart because, back then, you had to be seriously wounded to rate one...not just a slash on your leg that the corpsman can sew up and bandage...and certainly not a splinter you got in an arm...

My Dad's leg was cut up by a Japanese bayonet on Saipan - they simply patched him back up and returned him to duty...he never got a Purple Heart because, back then, you had to be seriously wounded to rate one...not just a slash on your leg that the corpsman can sew up and bandage...and certainly not a splinter you got in an arm...

-- Is that what your beef is? That Kerry is more decorated than your pop? Geez Mark, gotta let go of all that hate and jealousy.

Please do some research and learn how the Swiftboats actually operated in Viet Nam prior to making silly assertions.

-- You are the one making silly assertations. ALL the swiftboat people never actually served on Kerry's boat and the ones that did, back up kerrys story, so you going to believe the people that were not even actually there or the ones that were right there in the shit.

jqueer

I agree wholeheartedly that this IS about the children. Lord knows, we have to protect them from the perverse limp-wristed left-wing moonbats trying to pacify our way into failure in Iraq.

As far as Kerry's alleged time in Vietnam, I have not read one single thing about him being in Vietnam during the war. But even you don't contradict that Bush has commanded (ably, I might add) during the Global War on Terrorism.

Really, jqueer, for just a moment picture that it had been Kerry sitting where Bush sat when the attacks on 9/11 occurred...can you honestly say Kerry would have acted with the alacrity?

Think about it. It really IS for the children, people. Our children, in a time of war.

God Bless America.

Personally I'm sick of hearing about the Vietnam War, how John Kerry volunteered, and how VP Cheney didn't etc etc. etc..But since Kerry brought it up (AGAIN), what people should know is John Kerry didn't rush out one day and volunteer to serve. As reported February 18, 1970 in the Harvard Crimson and the UK Telegraph July 7, 2004, John Kerry had upon graduating from college having already received four deferments, sought a fifth deferment from the draft to study in Paris.

The request was denied by his draft board.

It was then and only then John Kerry enlisted. He knew he was definitely going to be drafted.

For those unfamiliar with how it worked you could either enlist in ANY branch of the armed services or risk being drafted, then told which branch of service you'd be in. John Kerry took the safer route by serving in the Navy versus being drafted and possibly walking the jungles. As to his request for Swift Boat duty this too was the safer way, or so he thought. At the time Kerry volunteered Swift Boats patrolled the oceans off Vietnam, it was later their mission took on patrolling the Mekong Delta and other inner waterways.

John Kerry has never denied these truths.

Yet he and others here villify VP Cheney for his receiving deferments, similar to ones Kerry himself received shows John Kerry as again being disengenuous if not just a flat hypocrite.

To John Kerry's credit he didn't dodge the draft but to say or intimate he rushed out to serve his country is a myth. His number was up and he knew it, either be drafted or enlist.

As to the President and the ANG... Palace Alert..

So, he was in Vietnam. Make up your minds, guys.

"Did you read the linked article? Essentially, Kerry got a splinter in his arm - likely accidentally due to his mistaken operation of an grenade launcher - and demanded that it be puffed up into a combat wound."

'Likely' is not good enough evidence to contradict Kerry.

Also, requirements for receiving a Purple Heart are hilariously low.

Just look at how well Bush performed on Sept. 11

Have to agree with you there CoC. And those second graders will forever be better readers thanks to those 7 quality minutes!

Axis,

No, my beef is that Kerry was denied his Purple Heart by his CO, and then once he had rotated out he managed to get someone else to sign off on his getting a medal for a bogus wound...

Kerry is a fraud - he spent four whole months in Vietnam just trying to puff up a "war hero" record so he could repeat the JFK life (and, of couse, JFK's "heroism" was also bogus - imagine what an idiot you have to be to get your PT boat run over by a destroyer!)...but when Kerry got home, he found that his liberal friends were no longer enthused about "war hero"....so, he chucked all that and went anti-war...until he needed "war hero" at a future date.

Kerry plays you for a fool, and you just sit there and enjoy it.

Pathetic.

Axis, PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN, its only Mark pretending to be the wizard.

And is pathetic the bonus word of the day? Everyone seems to be using it!

Pathetic.

Axis - You are the one making silly assertations. ALL the swiftboat people never actually served on Kerry's boat and the ones that did, back up kerrys story, so you going to believe the people that were not even actually there or the ones that were right there in the shit.

Like I said, try actually researching things before running off at the mouth. The boats operated in teams (that means more than one boat) together and were all too often within mere feet of each other.

That makes it pretty easy to see what is happening on another's boat.

Additionally, just as when we flew missions, you return to a base camp and the men, officer and enlisted, billet in common sleeping areas (that means bunk down under the same roof).

Sorry to spoil your delusion, but sKerry was not a Lone Wolf taking secret assasins up a river to kill off renegade Colonels (that was just a movie).

Again, I'll ask you sKerry apologists, why doesn't he fully release his complete records as Bush did? If he opened his complete jacket to independent researchers, the Swiftees could be swiftly proven liars (provided he is as honest as you believe).

My bet is he isn't. He doesn't need dossiers compiled, he doesn't need researchers to comb through other records, all he needs do is openly and fully release his complete records jacket.

Simple. So simple, even a Liberal should be able to figure it out.

Ash - And those second graders will forever be better readers thanks to those 7 quality minutes!

And, what could they have accomplished in the time sKerry admitted to be unable to think?

Here's what sKerry said on July 8 on the Larry King show, according to CNN's own transcript:

"I was in the Capitol. We'd just had a meeting - we'd just come into a leadership meeting in Tom Daschle's office, looking out at the Capitol. And as I came in, Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid were standing there, and we watched the second plane come in to the building. And we shortly thereafter sat down at the table and then we just realized nobody could think, and then boom, right behind us, we saw the cloud of explosion at the Pentagon. And then word came from the White House, they were evacuating, and we were to evacuate, and so we immediately began the evacuation."

Posted here back then, someone did the math and arrived at: "the second plane hit the World Trade Center at 9:03 a.m., and the plane hit the Pentagon at 9:43 a.m. By Kerry's own words, he and his fellow senators sat there for forty minutes, realizing 'nobody could think.'"

Ash - And those second graders will forever be better readers thanks to those 7 quality minutes!

And, what could they have accomplished in the time sKerry admitted to be unable to think?
Here's what sKerry said on July 8 on the Larry King show, according to CNN's own transcript:

"I was in the Capitol. We'd just had a meeting - we'd just come into a leadership meeting in Tom Daschle's office, looking out at the Capitol. And as I came in, Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid were standing there, and we watched the second plane come in to the building. And we shortly thereafter sat down at the table and then we just realized nobody could think, and then boom, right behind us, we saw the cloud of explosion at the Pentagon. And then word came from the White House, they were evacuating, and we were to evacuate, and so we immediately began the evacuation."

Posted here back then, someone did the math and arrived at: "the second plane hit the World Trade Center at 9:03 a.m., and the plane hit the Pentagon at 9:43 a.m. By Kerry's own words, he and his fellow senators sat there for forty minutes, realizing 'nobody could think.'"

One other thing Kerry has never done..

explain why his last discharge (one for the world to view) wasn't until I believe 4 years after he was originally to be discharged.. yet in the interim he wasn't in the military.. Now conventiently the known discharge was written shortly after Carter signed the amnesty for those who had dishonorably discharged and/or were draft dodgers.

That's never been explained..nor has the press ever inquired...

wonder why..

axis, please quit claiming that ALL the people who served with Kerry back up his stories.

One, a gunner named Larry, is the source of the story I have recounted on this blog: Again, verrrry slowly for axis..

The boat was assigned to lurk near the river's edge to intercept boats that might be carrying supplies to the Viet Bong. (Ooops, Cong----I was thinking of axis.)

Anyway, the captain was supposed to monitor the radar, and when a boat was approaching the Swift Boat was supposed to move into the center of the river and intercept it, stop it, and search it.

Larry was up in the "gun tub" when all of a sudden a Vietnamese boat came up on the Swift Boat. It startled both the gunner and the man piloting the boat. The pilot of the smaller boat reached into the cockpit and pulled out a rifle. Larry fired on him in self-defense, killing him---and the small boy who was in the cockpit with him.

The crew was badly shaken, and very po'd at Kerry, who had not been monitoring the radar (evidently) and had let the boat slip by. They took aboard the dead man's wife and infant child.

That night Larry and another crew member, still shaken by the unccessary death and especially by the death of a child, wondered how long it would take for them to be called up for a naval review board. They knew they would be punished, and possibly court-martialed.

But nothing happened, and the war, as wars will, took up their attention. It was not till Kerry was running for President that they found out what happened.

What happened is that Kerry submitted a report in which the Swift Boat had been attacked by armed Viet Cong and Kerry had leaped into the gun tub and fought them off with machine gun fire from the 50-cal, after which they took prisoner two Viet Cong spies.

Larry said that he served longer with Kerry than anyone, and never saw him in the gun tub or firing the machine gun. He certainly never saw them come under fire from a boat as Kerry described, and wondered how the distraught widow and infant child had morphed into two Viet Cong spies.

And this is only one of the stories told by some of Kerry's crew. Yes, SOME of his crew stand by him. Funny, they also get expense-paid trips on Kerry-Heinz jets, to stay in Kerry-Heinz mansions around the world. And funny, Kerry wrote THEM up for medals.

As for Rasmussen, he was flipped off the stern of Kerry's boat when Kerry turned tail and ran while the other Swift Boats around them went to the aid of a boat that had hit a mine. The crew of the other boats fired some shots into the foilage alongside the river, at first not sure if they had received enemy fire and also as a precaution against an ambush as they mounted a rescue mission for the stricken boat.

When Kerry saw that it was safe, he came back, and pulled Rasmussen out of the water. Rasmussen can be excused for thinking they were under fire---I've been flipped off the back of a boat and know you are somewhat disoriented for a few seconds, and if he was in the water and heard all the firing, he had no way of knowing who was shooting at who.

Let's put it this way---If I was going to lie about someone, I would not pick an extremely wealthy and vindictive man. I would not publish any lies about a man who could destroy me by suing me, with the vast resources at his disposal, unless I had equal resources. I would not put my name on anything that could possibly, remotely, ever be found in a court of law to be slanderous or libelous.

But I would put my name on public utterances if I knew that what I was saying was true----and that I could prove it in a court of law. I have always thought the Swifties WANTED Kerry to sue them, so they could get him into the jurisdiction of a court, under court rules, and where he would have to not only testify under oath but would have to produce documents he had previously been hiding. And I think they felt very safe in saying what they said, because they knew Kerry could not afford to risk suing them.

My prediction: Kerry will never sue.

axis, please quit claiming that ALL the people who served with Kerry back up his stories.

One, a gunner named Larry, is the source of the story I have recounted on this blog: Again, verrrry slowly for axis..

The boat was assigned to lurk near the river's edge to intercept boats that might be carrying supplies to the Viet Bong. (Ooops, Cong----I was thinking of axis.)

Anyway, the captain was supposed to monitor the radar, and when a boat was approaching the Swift Boat was supposed to move into the center of the river and intercept it, stop it, and search it.

Larry was up in the "gun tub" when all of a sudden a Vietnamese boat came up on the Swift Boat. It startled both the gunner and the man piloting the boat. The pilot of the smaller boat reached into the cockpit and pulled out a rifle. Larry fired on him in self-defense, killing him---and the small boy who was in the cockpit with him.

The crew was badly shaken, and very po'd at Kerry, who had not been monitoring the radar (evidently) and had let the boat slip by. They took aboard the dead man's wife and infant child.

That night Larry and another crew member, still shaken by the unccessary death and especially by the death of a child, wondered how long it would take for them to be called up for a naval review board. They knew they would be punished, and possibly court-martialed.

But nothing happened, and the war, as wars will, took up their attention. It was not till Kerry was running for President that they found out what happened.

What happened is that Kerry submitted a report in which the Swift Boat had been attacked by armed Viet Cong and Kerry had leaped into the gun tub and fought them off with machine gun fire from the 50-cal, after which they took prisoner two Viet Cong spies.

Larry said that he served longer with Kerry than anyone, and never saw him in the gun tub or firing the machine gun. He certainly never saw them come under fire from a boat as Kerry described, and wondered how the distraught widow and infant child had morphed into two Viet Cong spies.

And this is only one of the stories told by some of Kerry's crew. Yes, SOME of his crew stand by him. Funny, they also get expense-paid trips on Kerry-Heinz jets, to stay in Kerry-Heinz mansions around the world. And funny, Kerry wrote THEM up for medals.

As for Rasmussen, he was flipped off the stern of Kerry's boat when Kerry turned tail and ran while the other Swift Boats around them went to the aid of a boat that had hit a mine. The crew of the other boats fired some shots into the foilage alongside the river, at first not sure if they had received enemy fire and also as a precaution against an ambush as they mounted a rescue mission for the stricken boat.

When Kerry saw that it was safe, he came back, and pulled Rasmussen out of the water. Rasmussen can be excused for thinking they were under fire---I've been flipped off the back of a boat and know you are somewhat disoriented for a few seconds, and if he was in the water and heard all the firing, he had no way of knowing who was shooting at who.

Let's put it this way---If I was going to lie about someone, I would not pick an extremely wealthy and vindictive man. I would not publish any lies about a man who could destroy me by suing me, with the vast resources at his disposal, unless I had equal resources. I would not put my name on anything that could possibly, remotely, ever be found in a court of law to be slanderous or libelous.

But I would put my name on public utterances if I knew that what I was saying was true----and that I could prove it in a court of law. I have always thought the Swifties WANTED Kerry to sue them, so they could get him into the jurisdiction of a court, under court rules, and where he would have to not only testify under oath but would have to produce documents he had previously been hiding. And I think they felt very safe in saying what they said, because they knew Kerry could not afford to risk suing them.

My prediction: Kerry will never sue.

Hope you're working on that error message, Mark.

All you neorads out there: A challenge. I ask you some questions about Kerry, and you reply. You either believe or don't believe each statement, and if you believe it, you say what you think about it and about what it says about Kerry. OK? You up to that?

1. Kerry was on active duty during the time he formed the Viet Nam Veterans Against the War.
Do you agree that he was?
Do you think it was OK for an active Naval Officer to do what he did?
2. Kerry was on active duty when he traveled, illegally and illicitly, on two separate occassions, to North Viet Nam to visit with the enemy.
Do you think he did this?
Do you think it was OK for him to do this?
Do you think there are or should be legal ramifications for an active military officer to consort with the enemy?
3. Kerry testified under oath to Congress, saying things he later admitted were not true, about atrocities he claimed he repeatedly ("daily") saw committed in Viet Nam, and claiming he also committed atrocities there.
Do you believe the stories he told?
Do you believe him when he admitted he lied about what he said?
If you do, how do you feel about an active naval officer lying under oath to Congress and lying about the actions and integrity of United States military?
4. Do you believe what John McCain said about being told by a Viet Cong interrogator that the North did not have to worry about winning the war, that John Kerry and Jane Fonda would win it for them?
If you do believe John McCain, how does this affect your impression of John Kerry?
5. Would you be happy to have a president who had not only conspired with the enemy during a war but who is at this time in a museum in North Viet Nam as a hero of the country, based on his actions during that war?
6. Does it bother you to hear that the VVAW demonstrators who claimed to be throwing their earned Viet Nam medals over the White House fence were in fact throwing medals they had purchased in thrift stores and pawn shops? Does it bother you to know that John Kerry bragged about throwing his medals over the fence, but that they are hanging in his Senate office?
7. Do you have any rational explanation for the fact that John Kerry's Honorable Discharge was dated in March of 2001?
8. If a Naval Officer's tour of active duty was six years, can you find a reasonable explanation for John Kerry not serving his full six year tour of duty? Or do you feel that a naval officer serving his tour of duty can dress the way Kerry dressed and act the way Kerry acted while doing so? And if John Kerry was supposed to be on active duty during the VVAW/North Viet Nam visit era, would you consider him AWOL as he pursued those other interests? Do you have any information about what the Navy thought about those pursuits?

There are hundreds of similar questions about Kerry which have, so far, gone ignored and unanswered by his supporters. But you guys come here, uninvited, to a conservative blog, to tell us what you think and where you think we are wrong. So go for it. Tell us what you think about my questions, and where you think I am wrong.

Axis,

No, my beef is that Kerry was denied his Purple Heart by his CO, and then once he had

rotated out he managed to get someone else to sign off on his getting a medal for a bogus

wound...

Kerry is a fraud - he spent four whole months in Vietnam just trying to puff up a "war hero"

record so he could repeat the JFK life (and, of couse, JFK's "heroism" was also bogus -

imagine what an idiot you have to be to get your PT boat run over by a destroyer!)...but

when Kerry got home, he found that his liberal friends were no longer enthused about "war

hero"....so, he chucked all that and went anti-war...until he needed "war hero" at a future

date.

Kerry plays you for a fool, and you just sit there and enjoy it.

Pathetic.

-- Mark, Kerry was in Vietnam, he enlisted, he served, he did his duty in a bulls-it war.

Your view that he emblished a war injury is immaterial. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Point

is, he served his country, he put his life on the line, thats what matters.

The FRAUD here mark, is that your president, Bush is a AWOL national guard washout, who

never served a day of his life in a combat situation like Kerry did. He never even completed

his pilots training, he was too busy being a rich daddy's boy.

The FRAUD is that your Vice President Dick Cheney is a vietnam draft dodger who admitted

that he dodged the draft because he had "better things to do". Dick never served a day in

his life.

Runfeld is a military wannabe. So the FRAUD is that you have 3 of the biggest chickhawks in

US history in the white house, sending troops to their deaths without regard, when they

never served their country like they are asking others to do.

Kerry plays no one for a fool Mark, it is Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld who are playing you like

a 2 dollar violin. You support AWOL National Guard washouts and Draft Dodgers while playing

chickhawk and criticizing a man that actually served his country.

Axis,

No, my beef is that Kerry was denied his Purple Heart by his CO, and then once he had

rotated out he managed to get someone else to sign off on his getting a medal for a bogus

wound...

Kerry is a fraud - he spent four whole months in Vietnam just trying to puff up a "war hero"

record so he could repeat the JFK life (and, of couse, JFK's "heroism" was also bogus -

imagine what an idiot you have to be to get your PT boat run over by a destroyer!)...but

when Kerry got home, he found that his liberal friends were no longer enthused about "war

hero"....so, he chucked all that and went anti-war...until he needed "war hero" at a future

date.

Kerry plays you for a fool, and you just sit there and enjoy it.

Pathetic.

-- Mark, Kerry was in Vietnam, he enlisted, he served, he did his duty in a bulls-it war.

Your view that he emblished a war injury is immaterial. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Point

is, he served his country, he put his life on the line, thats what matters.

The FRAUD here mark, is that your president, Bush is a AWOL national guard washout, who

never served a day of his life in a combat situation like Kerry did. He never even completed

his pilots training, he was too busy being a rich daddy's boy.

The FRAUD is that your Vice President Dick Cheney is a vietnam draft dodger who admitted

that he dodged the draft because he had "better things to do". Dick never served a day in

his life.

Runfeld is a military wannabe. So the FRAUD is that you have 3 of the biggest chickhawks in

US history in the white house, sending troops to their deaths without regard, when they

never served their country like they are asking others to do.

Kerry plays no one for a fool Mark, it is Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld who are playing you like

a 2 dollar violin. You support AWOL National Guard washouts and Draft Dodgers while playing

chickhawk and criticizing a man that actually served his country.

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Mark, that server error message you are getting is not a problem with the scripts here, it is a problem with the script writing to your server, something is timing out when you go to make a submission. Likely one of your files is too large.

Have a look at your server error logs and it will tell you what file is causing the problem.

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Mark, that server error message you are getting is not a problem with the scripts here, it is a problem with the script writing to your server, something is timing out when you go to make a submission. Likely one of your files is too large.

Have a look at your server error logs and it will tell you what file is causing the problem.

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The heblksheepwasright writes...

explain why his last discharge (one for the world to view) wasn't until I believe 4 years after he was originally to be discharged.. yet in the interim he wasn't in the military.. Now conventiently the known discharge was written shortly after Carter signed the amnesty for those who had dishonorably discharged and/or were draft dodgers.

That's never been explained..nor has the press ever inquired...

wonder why..

Clearly you were never an officer in the Armed Forces... I was and regined my commossion 12/31/69. My actual discharge (Hororable) was by a Summary court (as is normally done) some 5 years later. This is the generally followed procedure.

Lets have a cloer look to see how many brave war vets we have in the Republican party today.

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* Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve.

* Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve.

* Former House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve . "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself."

* House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve

* Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve. (An impressive medical resume, but not such a friend to cats in Boston.)

* Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did
not serve

* Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve.

* Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve.

* Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. (1) Served as President Reagan's Special Envoy to the Middle East and met with Saddam Hussein twice in 1983 and 1984.

* GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years. Went AWOL and never completed his flight training.

* VP Cheney - several deferments , the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service")

* Former Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve (1, 2); received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State

* Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve.

* Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve , too busy being a Republican.

* Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve

* Senator John McCain - McCain's naval honors include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.

* Duke Cunningham - nominated for the Medal of Honor, received the Navy Cross, two Silver Stars, fifteen Air Medals, the Purple Heart, and several other decorations Recently entered plea bargain on felony charges of bribery, etc. etc.

* Representative Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD), served in USMC in Vietnam; wounded in action.

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Wow, sure are a lot of draft dodgers in your party isn't there. Never seen such a collection of warmongering chickenhawks in my life.

Funny how service was not a requirement for the Presidency during the 90s when a real draft dodger was in office, but it becomes mandatory once Clinton's term was over.

I wrote this, lost it in cyberspace, rewrote it, and then saw blk sheep's post, which makes many of the same points. But anyway......

Dick Cheney was married, a father, and a college student during Viet Nam. If you disagree with the LAWS of the time, challenge them. But quit carping about a guy who was not even ELIGIBLE for the draft.

George Bush neither got nor needed family or political connections to get into the Texas Air National Guard. There was not only no waiting list for pilots, they had trouble filling the slots.

He served nearly two years of full-time active duty in the Air Force in fighter pilot training, training on a very difficult and dangerous plane. Five men in his flight died in training accidents. He went on to fly many intercept missions, scrambled to intercept unidentified aircraft approaching the United States over the Gulf of Mexico. His job was not to show up every now and then and fly around the skies of Texas---or Alabama----he was on call to protect our country from intruders and possible attackers. Every intercept had the potential for danger. Oh, and he did this after joining an ANG group which had volunteered to go to Viet Nam.

(Libs who know nothing about the military seem to think that an enlistee first chooses the plane he will fly, and then where he will be deployed. Bush flew the plane they assigned to him, and had no control over whether or not his group would be sent to Viet Nam.)

He not only met the ANG requirements for duty and performance, he exceeded them by nearly three times. He was cited by his commanding officers for his skill and talent both as a pilot and as an officer and leader. He applied for an early out, with the encouragement of ANG administrators, because career pilots were returning from Viet Nam to fly the missions that had been assigned to ANG pilots. They had plenty of pilots, and they needed the planes.

One who WAS eligible for the draft, applied for and received deferments, and was then denied an application, was John F. Kerry. His last deferment application was so he could study in France. So patriotic, that. He then enlisted in the Navy to avoid being drafted. When he applied for Swift Boat duty, the boats were shuttling between shore and offshore ships. By the time he was accepted and reported for duty, they had been shifted to river patrol duty, and Lt. Kerry pitched a hissy fit still remembered by those who were around. Evidently getting shot at was not on his agenda. So he arranged to get three Purple Hearts in about three months, none of which required actually being hospitalized, and he was out of there.

novision says:
"Also, requirements for receiving a Purple Heart are hilariously low."

Yes, Kerry has proven that. But the rules do state that the injury has to have been received while under enemy fire. Stupidly firing a grenade launcher at a nearby cliff and then claiming a Purple Heart for an extremely minor splinter of shrapnel in the arm, a splinter that might have fallen out had such care not gone into holding the arm quiet till a doctor could get out his tweezers, clearly does not qualify.

And though I think black sheep did a great job of going through his explanations, I would like to point out that Kerry's commanding officer on the Boston Whaler that was being used as a training boat when Kerry "wounded" himself was the one who provided the account of how it happened. He was THERE, doncha see. ON THE BOAT WITH KERRY. An eyewitness. A disgusted one, at that, at Kerry's stupidity and lack of common sense.

axis dismisses Kerry's lies about his wounds and medals based on his evaluation that it was a bulls*** war. Soooo convenient. But sooooo typical of the Libs---lying is just fine, as long as they can find an excuse for it. This time it was OK because they didn't APPROVE of the war! And the after-the-fact approval of a few bizarros who know nothing of history and who disdain facts is supposed to mean something??

But clearly he and his yellow travelers don't care how much Kerry lied, or what he lied about.

I notice none have responded to my questions......

criticizing a man that actually served his country.

Yeah, I thought Noonan wasn't going to allow anti-military slurs on this site! Mark Noonan hates the military, tacitly hating America as well!

I see the light now. Bush is an idiot. No question. But somehow the Democratic left managed to find two bigger idiots to run against him in order to lose so they could complain for 8 years how their guys would have done better. After 8 years of Clinton, they no longer can distingush between truth and fiction. All they seem to be able to do is smear a good man who has done well in difficult times.

God Bless President Bush.

Almiranta, add to your list; Rumsfeld attended Princeton University on academic and NROTC scholarships (A.B., 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. In 1957, he transferred to the Ready Reserve and continued his Naval service in flying and administrative assignments as a drilling reservist until 1975. He transferred to the Standby Reserve when he became Secretary of Defense in 1975 and to the Retired Reserve with the rank of Captain in 1989.

I have begun to just skim the axis drivel, so I missed this the first time.
"He never even completed his pilots training..."
Referrring to President Bush.

He didn't? Then why did they let him fly fighter jets for more than three years? Why did they continue to put him on call alert, and scramble him for intercept missions?

The thing about axis is that he never shies away from a stupidity or a lie, and is happiest when he can utter both at the same time.

Bush served nearly two full years as a full-time pilot trainee in the Air Force pilot training program. He graduated and got his wings and then returned to Texas to fly in the TANG. His commanding officers commended him for both his flying skills and his leadership abilities.

axis of ignorance doesn't even begin to describe the profound stupidity and gall of this idiot. He is so far gone he doesn't even try to sound remotely believable. Obvously he thinks he's cute, but he's cute like a fat hairy old man in a Speedo is cute---you don't know whether to feel sorry for him, grossed out by him, or to just try to get the image out of your mind., but in any case you know it's deeply, deeply, wrong.

See what happens when you introduce facts into an axis of ignorance rant? He crumples and disappears.

The same thing happens when you challenge him, or his little playmates, to answer some simple questions about how they feel about certain aspects of their "hero", Kerry.

Turning tail and running seems to be the agenda here as well is in Iraq, if these clowns are involved.