The gift that keeps on giving, and the moderate Dems don't have what it takes to change it. However in their defense they must tackle OUR major ally, the MSM! How poetic. MSM, please continue to advance the position of the nuts in your party! And thanks to all the nuts posting on this board!

I guess the following were spoken before the right was so pleased that the hair-brained ops in Kosovo were successful. These probably came from some left wing crazy who just made them up:

"You can support the troops but not the president"
-Rep. Tom Delay (R-TX)

"[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."
-Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."
-Rep. Tom Delay (R-TX)

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."
-Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W. Bush

"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . . I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."
-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years."
-Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

"I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague
objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"
-Rep. Tom Delay (R-TX)

"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX) discussing Kosovo, Houston Chronicle, 04-09-99

"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

All of that sounds so...um, applicable.

Mark

I guess the Democratic party needs to have raving leftwing nutters to counter the raving rightwing nutters in the Republican party.

Looks as if there are no winners here. The country seems to be in some sort of nightmare scenario that you just can't awaken from.

I sure hope what happens in Vegas, DOESN'T stay in Vegas. It would be nice if the MSM ran a photo of Reid, Dean, Pellosi, and their potential Presidential nominee coddling with these leftwing nutjobs, and state their blog address, on their front page. After reading some of the posts on the kos site, I kept wondering if they were Americans or AQ operatives in disquise.

More Orwellian Newspeak from CO. When about 35% of Americans agree with the so-called "rightwing nutters," and less than 10% agree with the "leftwing nutters," then the term "nutters" can ONLY apply to ONE of those groups -- namely, the leftwing nutters, personified by the Kossacks.

Of course, CO is perfectly aware of these numbers. He uses Orwellian Newspeak to hide his real message, which is, "You Americans are f*cking stupid and I hate you." (Perhaps he realizes that message wouldn't be too effective.)

I don't know about ya'll, but I'm just trying to get some Peace. If Clinton or Biden or Warner, support war they will not get my support or my vote. Peace

This post is so absurd, I had to comment.

This rant is basically a personal attack on America, and Americans, who live in every State, and represent all aspects of American life. From soccer moms, to Ceo's, celebrities, politicians, school teachers, doctors, students, firemen, pastors, and on and on. Kossacks are America.

Americans as a whole, believe Bush and the Republicans are doing a bad job, just like all those "left wing fanatics".

Look at the polls, and you see that Americans as a whole, agree with Kossacks, on most issues.

So, you have it backwards. Americans as a whole, as you put it, actually don't want anything to do with Republicans policies.

Canadian,

Thing is, those few rightwing nutters who are out there don't have any say in how the GOP is run...our rightwing nutters were read out of the GOP back in the 60's when we forced the Birchers out...unfortunately for the Dems, just as we were forcing our nutters out, they were inviting them in.

What you would like to think, of course, is that a conservative Christian is just as nutty as, say, a Kossack...but that simply doesn't hold water; a conservative Christian has a rational worldview, even if you disagree with it...a Kossack, on the other hand, really believes that President Bush, et al, are evil.

Reprinted from NewsMax.com
Saturday, June 10, 2006 11:50 a.m. EDT
Cindy Sheehan: Zarqawi's Death Bad News

"Peace Mom" Cindy Sheehan said Friday that she's troubled by the death of al Qaeda's top operational terrorist, Abu Musab al Zarqawi, predicting that it will actually make things worse for U.S. troops in Iraq. "I suspect it's gong to make the insurgency in Iraq worse," she told Cincinnati, Ohio's 9News. The peace crusader added that the expected increase in violence "will just prove to me that our presence in Iraq is just fueling the violence, fueling the insurgency." "The killing and the cycle of violence has to stop," Sheehan insisted.

SHE'S MENTALLY ILL....................

but when push came to shove, all conservatives were pleased that the military operations were successful and a couple tyrants were removed. And conservatives were ok with it helping Clinton -

just look at all this "support"

"President Clinton is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be
away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."

-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)

"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."

-Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of presidential candidate George W. Bush

"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning...I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

"You think Vietnam was bad? Vietnam is nothing next to Kosovo."

-Tony Snow, Fox News 3/24/99

"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years"

-Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

"I'm on the Senate Intelligence Committee, so you can trust me and believe me when I say we're running out of cruise missles. I can't tell you exactly how many we have left, for security reasons, but we're almost out of cruise missles."

-Senator Inhofe (R-OK )

"I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarifiedrules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our overextended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"I don't know that Milosevic will ever raise a white flag"

-Senator Don Nickles (R-OK)

"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

"This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, that's his problem."

-Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN)

"The two powers that have ICBMs that can reach the United States are Russia and China. Here we go in. We're taking on not just Milosevic. We can't just say, 'that little guy, we can whip him.' We have these two other powers that have missiles that can reach us, and we have zero defense thanks to this president."

-Senator James Inhofe (R-OK)

"You can support the troops but not the president"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"My job as majority leader is be supportive of our troops, try to have input as decisions are made and to look at those decisions after they're made ... not to march in lock step with everything the president decides to do."

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

For us to call this a victory and to commend the President of the United States as the Commander in Chief showing great leadership in Operation Allied Force is a farce"
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

Mark

Can you remind us what the conservative Christian rational worldview is again?

I certainly think James Dobson and the Focus on the Family has a great deal of influence on the Republican Party. And there is little doubt that they meet the criteria for nuttery. He/They are a lot further right than Kos diarists are left.

As a "right"winger I am proud to be a member of the GOP. I find it laughable that people think that those of us who disagree with Bush want the Democratic agenda to prevail. Nothing could be farther than truth. Democratic platform: abortion on demand, lies, name calling, hypocrites, socialism, disbanning corporations, atheism, revoking the Constitution, disarming the military, and general chaos. As long as there are REAL Americans in this country who love freedoms you will never see the Democratic agenda realized.

As one of the more sane commenters put it at Daily Kos yesterday: "Come on, the guy did exist, blew lots of stuff up (mostly Iraqis), and we finally killed his murdering ... a--. ... Much more importantly, the Iraqi Parliament approved people for the Defense and Interior ministries. So could we quit being negative for one day at least?"

The author of the article ended his story with this comment. He most likely didn't have enough room to write all of the nasty, negative comments this poster received.

aKadad: I am assuming you have never visited the KOS site. Why don't you spend a few minutes reading the posts on their site and then come back here and apologize for stating "Kossacks are America".

Ash: You're right. It's a toss-up. Focus on your family .... or focus on your extreme hatred for one man and a politcal party. I'm gonna have to think about that.

Canadian O. Can you please restate your position in French? Merci.

aka. The proper place to stop writing after having said you had no comment would have been right there. Not, as you did four paragraphs later. Not that you're stupid or anything.

I'll try this again.

I think I got censored before. I posted these quotes earlier, but apparently they didn't fit in well with the Republican worldview consistent with this posting.

Here we go - I guess these folks were speaking before they became please that the military operation in Kosovo was successful.

=================================================

"You can support the troops but not the president"
-Rep. Tom Delay (R-TX)

"[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."
-Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA)

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."
-Rep. Tom Delay (R-TX)

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."
-Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W. Bush

"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . . I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."
-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years."
-Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

"I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague
objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"
-Rep. Tom Delay (R-TX)

"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX) discussing Kosovo, Houston Chronicle, 04-09-99

"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

================================================

Does anyone else smell something burning? The hypocrisy is palpable.

Even though the Democrats are in a mess and I despair (as a Canadian citizen) at their lack of focus, the true dismal future is going to happen to the Republicans. History soon will bear this prediction out.
Mark, you say the GOP got rid of the Birchers but it is still controlled by the extreme right wing in the guise of neo-cons, a group well represented by the raving likes of Ann Coulter. Man, that witch scares me.

Canadian,

Part of your problem would be, I think, that you likely view faith and reason as two opposite things - we people of faith, on the other hand, know that they are complemantary and that one cannot function without the other. What you haven't got past is such things as a realisation that most of the "real" universe, as you know it, is made up of nothing...that without a leap of faith, none of it is explicable.

At any rate, our rational worldview cannot be encapsulated in a brief blog response, but I'll put forward an example:

People can be bad. This is something that you both know but also don't know - you know that people can be bad, but you operate on the assumption that they won't be...and thus a liberal has no problem with, say, an 18 year old girl going down to Aruba unescorted by a trusted male; we Christians know better, and know the poor girl would still be alive had just a bit of Christian rationality been used in the decision making process.

Even though the Democrats are in a mess and I despair (as a Canadian citizen) at their lack of focus, the true dismal future is going to happen to the Republicans. History soon will bear this prediction out.
Mark, you say the GOP got rid of the Birchers but it is still controlled by the extreme right wing in the guise of neo-cons, a group well represented by the raving likes of Ann Coulter. Man, that witch scares me.

Canuck,

Have you ever actually read a whole Coulter piece? I mean, not just some out of context quote of Coulter's, but a whole piece?

Certainly, she's over the top - in fact, I consider her downright rude; but she doesn't lie, and she wouldn't have anything to talk about absent leftwing insanity.

If you think the so-called "neocons" are hard right, then you've not a clue about what the right wing is about at all - most neocons are far more libertarian than conservative.

"Look at the polls, and you see that Americans as a whole, agree with Kossacks, on most issues."

HA! That's gotta be the funniest thing I've ever read on a blog! Hey, AkaDad, get your head out of your butt -- or whatever Blue State ghetto you dwell in -- because you either don't know the Kossacks, or don't know Americans, or both. The vast majority of Americans DESPISE the sentiments expressed on Daily Kos.

Mark

Coulter may not lie, but she sure plays loose with the facts. Example - She insisted that Canada had sent troops to Viet Nam and when she was called on her mistake she told the interviewer she would check it out and get back to him. He is still waiting. She spews a constant diarrhea of inaccurate garbarge. Sad thing is, some people actually believe what she says is true.

Kahn

Pas problem.

Religion en politique est un melange toxique.

Hey, JS , can you tell me the reason why we went to war in Kosovo?

Was it to fight against terrorism? Nah, it was fought FOR terrorists.

We bombed Christian Yugoslavia, our ally in two World Wars, to aid Muslim separatists who were tight with Osama bin Laden.

Kosovo is the ancient heartland of Serbian Orthodoxy. Until the 1970s, its population was predominately Serb. Due to illegal immigration from Albania, Moslems became a majority and began agitating for autonomy. Then they started committing atrocities against their Serb neighbors – like beating elderly nuns, raping young girls and attacking monasteries. Then the KLA – which the U.S. State Department listed as a terrorist group as late as 1998 – started assassinating Yugoslav police and government officials.

"Al Qaeda’s Balkan Links,” The Wall Street Journal, November 1, 2002 noted, “By feeding off the region’s impoverished republics and taking root in the unsettled aftermath of the Bosnia and Kosovo conflicts, Al Qaeda, along with Iranian Revolutionary Guard-sponsored terrorists, have burrowed their way into Europe’s backyard.”

Hey, JS, can you give me one reason why you think Kosovo was successful? And Scarborough is nearly correct ... our troops have been there 7 years ... so far.

Seems to me all the folks on the right have convention-envy.

Has anyone asked the obvious (to me) question why LGF, NRO, RedState, Hewitt, Coulter, Malkin, Rush etc aren't having a convention, or even so much as an advertised meeting in their local church basement with punch and pie? I would surmise that the stuff they talk about is so far out of the mainstream of America (certain mainstream headline issues aside) that they would be lucky to cover their costs for an excursion to Chucky Cheese's.

Maybe a bit of context for all us here. We are the 5% of the american public who have embraced the internet as a tool for debate and discussion, we are the razor's edge, so far removed from the vast majority of American center that to look across the divide we cast ourselves in, is like looking at eachother in the context of a Hubble deed-field collage; we see only the bright blues and reds and yellows of the opinions we hold on the hot button issues of the day. I would argue that in any given red or blue-state fortress, you can find that america goes on, unconcerned with what we think about spending issues, foreign policy, or 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 9th or even 14th amendment issues. Now this may be due to apathy or even complete ignorance to the prevailing issues, but none the less these are the people that DKos and RS/NRO are fighting for. So try and remember that the intricate cat's craddle we see as all too relevant doesn't fly in St. Louis or Denver like it flies in Houston or NYC.

At the end of the day all us "kooks", "moonbats", and "wingnuts" are going to go to early graves trying to educate a mass of people who really don't care, atleast not when there are more people concerned with the outcome of Survivor or American Idol, than with who the PM of Iraq is, or why China devalues its currency, and the impact it will eventually have.

I love roaring back and forth with you folks for one simple reason: Training. I train everyday on how to explain in the most concise and basic terms how I percieve the political body acts and the ramifications of those actions on Joe and Jane Schmoe. When I talk to the devout I know 99 out of 100 times i'm not going to change their mind, because frankly its so unconcerned with the realities of backroom politics and PoliSci theory as a whole; but what I am doing is archiving your talking points, learning your lingo, decoding your thought, and presenting the issues I see as important with enough tact as to make it obvious to the most unconcerned E! watcher, the pros and cons to the argument that when they hear the 30-second sound blurb on the following night's evening news, that they will already have reframed that issue in their mind so that they can rhetorically ask questions to their TV and seem like an educated person to their spouse.

So when everything is said and done, the mere fact that you guys care enough to mention Kos' convention will ensure my leverage point into your faithful, and give me all the ammuntion I need to use my skills, sharpened in arenas such as this, to make them question lazy thoughts, and perhaps get one person thinking about the issues of the day in a way they aren't hearing from FOX/ABC/NBC/CBS. So keep talking folks, you're making my job easier.

akadad,

If most of america agrees with the Kos kids how do you explain the following?

Kos revels in the fact that they were able to make Howard Dean a front runner. 2003 might have been the year of candidate Howard Dean, but 2004 was the year in which the Democratic presidential nominee was actually chosen—and Dean lost.

Kos also revels in the fact that THEY made Dean Chairman of the DNC. In the meantime, contributions to the party are down as a result of his over the top statements and far left positions.

And Paul Hackett, a KOS favorite who ran for a seat in the House from Ohio in 2005...well, he lost too, as did more than a dozen other candidates who ran with KOS support.

No doubt the majority of the left fringe kooks and moonbats agree with KOS, but not even the majority of registered Democrats agree with the positions of KOS, much less a majority of Americans.

But we on the right are happy he and his minions seems to hold so much sway in what's left of the democrat party.

Convention envy? You're so silly, TEO. The fact they're having a conference at all is laughable. What the heck are they going to talk about ... more "I hate Bush" rhetoric?

I'll answer your question with another question: Why would LGF, NRO, RedState, Hewitt, Coulter, Malkin, Rush etc have a convention when they can reach more people via the mediums they already use?

PS I'm glad you've chosen Blogsforbush.com as your classroom. I've learned a lot from you, and have even agreed on some of your points. On another note, I hope your dad remains safe.

kimberly, Focus on your family .... or focus on your extreme hatred for one man and a politcal party.

It's not quite that simple, K. Focus on your family also focuses on mine and Tom's down the street. My dissent from their value system is that I believe in a little piece of paper called the Constitution. (I am not driven by my hatred for one man, btw- I have an inherent right to disagree politically- so far).

That is why I think it is so important to provide oversite. Rove acknowledged that he was intent on expanding the power of the Presidency, and well, I suspect Bush pretty much does what he is told.

Also Kimberly, why do you suspect Bush is the most reviled president in history? (with all due respect to Richard Nixon)

Kimberly,

Thanks, pops is kinda cantankerous, but he was in the Army and knows how to keep his head down. :-)

As far as LGF, NRO, RedState, Hewitt, Coulter, Malkin, Rush etc's reach, I would argue that they have about hit their saturation point, DKos leaves all the other political blog sites in the dust as far as hits, and I would argue that the convention is going to raise their profile in middle america even more. To me, with the lack of competition from right-side bloggers and the losing of ratings ground for neo-con waterbearer Rushbo, it alludes to a saturation of the market on the right, while an apparent widening of the gap between the current ratings/hits on the left-side and the cieling. The market has plenty of room to grow, and I would argue that the right's 20 year headstart as far as talk radio is starting to see the pace quicken of the supply in the market, and a very apparent demand for left talk-radio.

"In the Spring 2005 reporting period, Rush's station WIOD-AM has a 2.8 listener share, down a whopping 33% from his 4.2 share in the Fall of 2004. Air America Radio, on the other hand, has a 2.0 share in Spring 2005, up a grand total of 66% since the Fall of 2004. While Rush Limbaugh fans may take solace in the fact that he still maintains a narrow advantage in Florida over the upstart, liberal Air America, one must also consider that he has had a 20 year head start to build a listener base, which is traditionally slow to develop in AM talk radio."

"in New York, where Air America still broadcasts over WLIB-1190 AM, the network beat Limbaugh's station, Disney-owned WABC, among both 25-to-54-year-olds and 18-to-34-year-olds during the 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. period. In the 25-to-54 demographic, WLIB garnered a 3.4 share to WABC's 3.1; among 18-to-34-year-olds, WLIB won sevenfold with a 2.9 share to WABC's 0.4.

In Chicago, Air America Radio was on only 28 days before a billing dispute knocked it off the air. Still, Franken turned in a very strong showing against Limbaugh. While on during its short time period on WNTD, WNTD went from a 0.1 percent share to a 3 percent share among 25 to 54 year olds. It stands to reason that should Air American find another broadcaster, they can continue their success in this market and continue to pull listeners from WLS-AM which airs Rush Limbaugh's show. "

If the left garnered ~50% of the vote in the last election while holding far less of the market share of political leaning pundits, then just imagine the numbers that can be mobilized with even a 5:1 ratio of right vs. left flamethrowers.

Slightly off-topic, but just wow.

thus a liberal has no problem with, say, an 18 year old girl going down to Aruba unescorted by a trusted male; we Christians know better, and know the poor girl would still be alive had just a bit of Christian rationality been used in the decision making process.

This mentality is not far removed from that of "cover yourself from head to toe when you go out, ladies. Don't want some strange man looking at any exposed skin and getting ideas." Mark, how about working to eradicate the problem of men who see women as goods for the taking, rather than telling women if they don't follow the rules then the boogeyman will get them.

TEO said: "Has anyone asked the obvious (to me) question why LGF, NRO, RedState, Hewitt, Coulter, Malkin, Rush etc aren't having a convention, or even so much as an advertised meeting in their local church basement with punch and pie?"

Have you been to a local church basement lately? If you have, you would know the answer to your question. That IS what you're up against, dude.
And until you get that, you guys don't have a chance. And frankly, IMHO, the choice of Las Vegas as the site for the first annual annual DKos convention is so politically tone-deaf as to be ludicrous.

You say you're looking for training by interacting here. I do too. In my case, I am looking for ways to try to get people on both sides to start thinking reasonably, to start paying attention to the substance of the issues rather than the personalities that espouse them and the symbols that people use to conflate them into something more simple than they are. But as a symbol, Las Vegas is about as far away from a church basement in Topeka as you could possibly get. And there's your problem, IMO. Well, not your problem personally, but that of your ilk.

You don't have to believe me, but it might be something to think about. That is, after all, what I try to do -- to get people to think, and hope they respond in kind.

Rico,

Don't confuse your standard CTN-watching tongue speaker with your run of the mill sunday-only church-goer.

While Evangelical churches may be already painted a deep shade of red, the mere fact that there are obvious splits in churches such as UMC, Presbyterians, and Episcopalians is the canary in the mine shaft. While the right has made a lot of headway playing to fears within these churches, the idea that just because you attend church regularly you agree with the main points of the right such as gays, Iraq, and the economy are laughable. If we are to believe recent polls then the vast majority of people, even the churchies aren't liking where the country is being driven.

I am not making a value judgement on DKos, I read them just like I read LGF and RS and NRO, with a grain of salt, I was making the point that the numbers show that they are penetrating at a much faster rate, and far deeper into american internet life than the ideas of right wing sources, whether that is a prodcut of the demography of the average internet user, or a prophetic glimpse of the young masses being incubated within the inter-tron, I will reserve my judgement for a later time.

The fact they are in Vegas, while ironic, doesn't change the fact that they are going to get airtime, and thus inflate their already high hit-rates. Whether that "converts" anyone from the middle is hard to say, but they are the soup du-jour and will continue to snowball as they become more relevant and they spawn pundit staples and serve as spring-boards for liberal think-tanks.

Third Eye: Your rant lost all credibility when your distain for Joe and Jane "Schmoe" came blathering out. How said that you actually believe your delusions. How pathetic you show such little care for your fellow Americans. The only thing I can see you teaching is your distain and contempt. You are laughable at best and irrelevant in this life.

Ash: I was referring to KOS, not you, when I made my comparison.

I think the left hates Bush so much because they believe he stole the election in 2000. The war in Iraq, the Patriot Act, NSA wiretapping, his belief in God just fuel their fire. Why do you hate him?

Hasn't every President, especially those during wartime, been hated? I can only imagine the comments made about Lincoln during the Civil War. And yet, he remains one of the most beloved presidents of all time.

IMO, Nixon did a fine job as President. He had established permanent dialogue with China, established human rights as an international issue, eased tensions with the USSR - while weakening its hold on Eastern Europe, and began a peace process in the M.E.

I don't hold any hatred toward any one person, except for terrorists. Hate is such a strong word and wastes so much energy.

Norah,

It is your precise attitude which leads to things like an 18 year old girl going down to Aruba to end up dead at the hands of some sort of sexual predator.

People can be bad, Norah - and we can't have a cop next to every person, 24/7. Because we can't have a cop next to every person (nor ensure that all cops are good even if we could provide everyone with their own personal protective detail), we have to rely upon hard and fast social rules to take the place of a cop next to every person.

One of the hard and fast rules of life used to be that a woman had to exercise some caution about where she went, and when. Given that there are bad people and given that most women are physically much weaker than most men, women need to either not go certain places at certain times, or have a male escort to equal things out (alternately, a woman can carry a gun - though you liberals don't like that either, unless the woman in question is a rich, white celebrity who donates to the proper leftwing causes).

Don't get me wrong, Norah - there are places I shouldn't go unescorted, either. In fact, when I was in the Navy, there were certain areas of various towns where we were warned expressly against going alone - I was a perfectly fit young male quite able to take care of myself, but it would have been foolhardy for me to go into certain areas alone - especially at night, especially after I had a drink or two.

Some people are bad - and you've got to be careful. As it is, you could dance around drunk and naked in front of me and demand that I have sex with you, and it wouldn't result in anything - I'm a married man who takes his vows quite seriously. But you can't know that - you can't know that even if you acted with perfect propriety around me that I'm not an animal just waiting for the chance to strike...you have to be cautious until you are reasonably certain of what will or will not happen.

This leftwing demand of no rules and that everyone is the perfect equal in all respects to everyone else is a suicide pact.

uffy,

go with God(s) and peace be upon you.

may your underwear not chaffe and may all your balogne be fresh.

Ash,

And why is he also the most beloved President? There are those out there who believe, as I do, that President Bush is another Lincoln - another President who led the nation down very difficult paths and was heavily reviled for it while he lived.

Mark,

Quit confusing common sense with "christian rationality".

The assumption that christians are the wholesalers of rationality is laughable, have you thought about the concept of transubstantiation or purgatory recently?

If you wanna make some point that common-sense tells us not to go certain places when it's dark, or that women need to be careful, no matter if they are packing heat or bubblegum, then say so; but don't go trying to attribute 'rationality' with a philosophy revolving around a grandfatherly figure sitting on clouds keeping track of your every thought while throwing lightning bolts at your ass.

I have faith in the idea that common-sense, just isn't all that common, to christians or heathens alike.

If you want to go about your entire life afraid of anyone who isn't like you or doesn't view the world like you, then I pity you, I have faith that despite the fearmongering ever so apparent in the dogma of modern christianity, that the people of the world are good natured, but if I to find out differently it's no ones fault but my own, and i'll take that lesson in stride. For every poor white girl killed in Aruba, there are a thousand people giving up seats to old ladies on buses and volunteering at soup kitchens.

I don't think I need to remind you of the rational christians who go about handling serpents, tossing pipe-bombs into abortion clinics, speaking in tongues, and asking God to strike down democratically elected heads of state and supreme court justices...quite a rational bunch you got there.

TEO: Not sure where my post went.

I find the high number of hits on KOS web site extremely suspicious ... especially after their post of how to "cheat" on polls by deleting your computer's cookies and then voting 30 to 40 times. As a web developer, I know how easy it is to maniupulate the number of hits a site receives.

Even so, the right definitely needs to pay more attention to the Internet as a medium to get our views across. I do think we have learned a lot since 2000.

Air America? Haven't they gone bust yet?

PS I'm an AF brat myself.

Well Mark, I'd just point you in the direction of any poll taken recently. I must admit however Cheney and pedophiles do rate lower! But your comparison to Lincoln is so ludicrous that any reply you can make is, well ludicrous.

Care to take a crack at my original query? Why has he garnered such hatred?

Kimberly,

Watch out, someone might call you a conspiracy nut LOL

The right has tried to get into the game of the inter-tron, but they are running into problems, since it's much harder to exclude people here, and at a rally or $2000 per plate lunch, as this sight can attest to, short of banning people like RS does, you're gonna get people like us voicing our opinions right along with yours.

Norah,

Some conservative wisdom for you...

"You can severely reduce your chances of having a false accusation of rape leveled against you if you don't hire strange women to come to your house and take their clothes off for money.

Also, you can severely reduce your chances of being raped if you do not go to strange men's houses and take your clothes off for money. (Does anyone else detect a common thread here?)

And if you are a girl in Aruba or New York City, among the best ways to avoid being the victim of a horrible crime is to not get drunk in public or go off in a car with men you just met. While we're on the subject of things every 5-year-old should know, I also recommend against dousing yourself in gasoline and striking a match." Ann Coulter

Air America has a few markets where it does less badly than in others. And why not? If you are a radical lefty looking for validation for your paranoia and for some new lies to prop up your irrational loathing, it't the only game in town. And it still has to be propped up by political action groups, most notably MoveOn. The numbers of people listening don't necessarily translate into advertising revenue.

Conservatives listen to talk radio, for the most part, for information, not validation. And they have a large number of choices available to them. They can listen to Mike Gallagher, Hugh Hewitt, Michael Medved, Michael Reagan---and those are only a few of those on the airwaves, and those are all national, in markets all across the country. The number of local conservative talk shows is also growing. So if some of these other conservatives have cut into Rush's audience, so what? You try to make it sound as if anyone who stopped listening to Rush switched over to Air America.

Aother point: While the Right has its radicals, like Michael Savage, the talk radio of the Left IS radical. So the overall numbers of those who listen to conservative talk radio are divided among many hosts, and a small number of them listn to the rightwing nutters. But whoever IS listening to leftwing talk radio is listening to no one BUT nutters.

(A local lib, talking about aspects of illegal immirgration, said "Sure, it's a good idea for any country to have only one language. But who says our language has to be English? What's wrong with Spanish?" Not radical??)

And Air America lies. There is simply no way around that. They lie. They lie about Bush's military record, they lie about voter fraud, they lie about WMD---they just invent whatever will rile up the rabid Bush-hating base that day, and repeat it all day long. And the rabid Bush-hating base eats it up and doesn't care. This is the mentality that can swallow something as ridiculous as "Fake But Accurate" without gagging, and find it yummy.

An example: I have tried for a month to track down a story told on AA about how the valiant and pure of heart Dems held the Republicans' feet to the fire by threatening to filubster Alito, unless the Republicans agreed to release Phase 2 of the 9/11 report. The Republicans, according to this fantasy, agreed to do so, the noble Dems went ahead and confirmed Alito, and then the wascally wepublicans went back on their word. Because, doncha know, they HAVE to hide what is in the report, because it is soooooo damaging to them.

Boy, the rads ate that up with a spoon. Couldn't get enough of it. Of course, there was not an iota of truth to it. I've checked it out every way I can, and the only source for this story, which is by the way 100% false, is Air America.

Yes, there is definitely and without a doubt a base of seriously deranged lefty kooks out there, and they do have an unexplainable influence on the Democratic party. There are some equally deranged kooks on the right, but they are very very far from being numerous enough to qualify as a "base" for the Republicans. In fact, they are barely tolerated, and while the Left trots them out regularly to try to create the illusion they actually speak for the Right, we know better. It's the Straw Man approach, as executed by the media.

Look at TEO's post, above. He trots out the same old suspects, the same old Straw Men---serpent-handlers, abortion clinic bombers, and whoever else he is referring to there. As if these people actually represent the Right.

Example: Pat Robertson (I think it was) said 9/11 was a punishment from God for being sinners---or some such rubbish. And he was shouted down by the Right, shut down and criticized and generally disowned. But the "Reverend" Jesseh announced that the President let people die in New Orleans because he hates blacks, and the Left lined up to say "Yeah, Brother!" An abortion clinic gets bombed and the Right is up in arms, condemning the action and making sure it is clear that it does not represent true Christian, or conservative, values. But a nutcase announces that the levies in New Orleans were bombed to kill blacks, and the Dem base is mute---except for those who openly agree.

There is a good reason to talk about the radical Dems taking over the party. Dragging out few tired cliches about abortion clinic bombings is not going to establish a similar radical movement taking over the right. Because it isn't happening. In fact, the right is moving toward the middle, as so many former Dems find that party too weird to attract them any more and start to look at conservatism with a new eye.

And if you don't believe the Dems have shifted wildly to the left, just take a look at John F. Kennedy's politics. If you were to put them on a transparency and overlay them on top of G.W. Bush's, they would be nearly identical. Bush even used old JFK speeches to campaign for his tax cuts---the actual speeches, mind you, not selected quotes. The Democratic Party has moved very far left, and the Republican Pary has been dragged along in its wake for some of that distance, so that now what we call Republican would have been solidly Democratic in 1960. It's the R's moving toward the middle, and the D's lurching off the deep, left, end.

What are you talking about mark? The moderate conservatives are the ones that don't have any say in the GOP right now, your party has been taken over by the neo-conservatives which share few traditionally conservative values. These are the nutty right, although not as nutty as the far religious right.

Canadian,

Thing is, those few rightwing nutters who are out there don't have any say in how the GOP is run...our rightwing nutters were read out of the GOP back in the 60's when we forced the Birchers out...unfortunately for the Dems, just as we were forcing our nutters out, they were inviting them in.

Also Kimberly, why do you suspect Bush is the most reviled president in history? (with all due respect to Richard Nixon)

Hey Ash-hole, the AP/Ipsos polls aren't history. History has yet to judge President Bush. You sure are a dumbass for an old codger.

Almiranta: You're absolutely correct and I couldn't agree more.

Someone on another blog mentioned that ridiculous story about the fillibuster, and I also researched it. Couldn't find anything on it, so I just chalked it up as another lie from the left.

Here goes TEO again, drawing from his well of negativism to 'splain America.

Now it is that the conservatives' advances are based on "playing to fears". Once more, it is TEO who is so much smarter than millions of Americans, and seeing throgh the fog to the real truth.

What fears, TEO? Fears that there might be people out there who want us all dead just because we don't share their religion? Or their particular narrow view of their religion?

Fears that a group with a demonstrable and documented history of economic ignorance might take over our government and drag it back to the repressive murk of confistacatory economics, where the productive are punished for their succeses to support the unproductive, till they give up and stop producing?

Those are the only two fears I have, TEO, and I think they are pretty well-founded.

It is true that much of the conservative movement is based on an awareness of danger as the result of not taking action. But we feel that is a better and sounder basis for what we think and do than a philosophy based on lies.

You know, lies like how Sadaam was just a genial teddy bear of a guy, impotent and harmless, who posed no threat whatsoever to us or to his own people. Lies like "Fake But Accurate". Lies like how productive people will, even when punished by having the fruits of their labors taken away from them, continue to invest and work to make even more money so it, too, can be confiscated and handed out to the unproductive. (That, after all, is the basis of radical economics.) There is the lie that people don't need a Higher Power to believe in, unless that Higher Power is the government. There are so many lies that make up the fabric of liberal political liberalism.

And fear? How about the fearmongering that goes on here? How about the repeated claim that conservatives want to establish a "theocracy" and impose their religion on the country? How about Ranty Rhodes droning on and on and on about how the Right "just wants to start WW Three....and (sigh...) I just hope someone is left alive when it's over." How about the left's claims that Bush wants to institute martial law so he can stay in office as the Supreme Ruler?

PuhLEEZE, TEO...you are a radical left-wing evangelical, with radical left-wing roots back in Honduras (no matter where you were born) and you are totally committed to the left-wing talking points.

OK, so everything you see about this country is seen through a glass, darkly. Great. That's your life, that's your perspective, and you are welcome to it. I don't mean that in the wishy-washy uber-liberal manner of "we are all entitled to think what we want" but in "Here----take your miserable dark dreary attitude, and welcome to it, because I want nothing to do with it".

I am from a very poor farming family---tenant farmers, not owning our own land. I have seen for myself what this country can offer people who get educated, work hard, and end up reaping the benefits of living in a country of freedom and opportunity. I had a six-figure TAX BILL last year, TEO! Don't tell me that this is a bad place to live, and don't tell me that the "rich" don't pay their share!

And I've moved from the left to the right as I gained life experience and was able to see not just the fallacies of the left, but the bitter cynicism of its leaders, who callously use the foot soldiers while living the high life they preach is not important.

So, TEO, glory in your imagined intellectual and moral superiority, in a world where no successful person can be good, where belief in a Higher Power and striving to meet the goals of those teachings is cause for ridicule, and where flying an ultralite is braver than flying a fighter jet on intercept missions with unknown intruders. Again, it's your world, and welcome to it. I would not inhabit that kind of world for anyhing---not even for the material goods you KNOW, somehow, are all that motivate me. I am much happier in the sunlight, grateful to have been born in this country, grateful to have elected a man of courage and integrity and determination (even though he, like all of us, makes mistakes) and grateful to be able to live the life I live.

Mark- what are you talking about? Your party is full of right-wing nutters, who only represent 1/3 of voters. That is why the other 2/3 wants a change of direction. Conservatives were so intent on promoting their agenda, that they gave little thought to the majority that disagrees with them. Among the r/w nutters
Jerry Falwell
Pat Robertson
Ralph Reed
James Dobson
Ann Coulter
Dick Cheney
Michael Savage
Sean Hannity
Rush and David Limbaugh
I won't name the current resident of the W.H., even though he claims to be appointed by G-d, but he's one too!

Almiranta,

Thanks, it warms my heart to see you overcome.

Quit confusing me with marxists. I don't revile capitalism nor consumption, but everything in moderation.

Your faith and money mean very little to me, I have my own faith, and it doesn't include ignoring the fact that your prosperity comes on the backs of people you have the ability to ignore. Your tax bill is of no importance to me, because a fool and his money are soon parted, and when your time comes, as all ours will, you will know the singularity that all dead know, it is better to be alive. So the next time you get your panties in a bunch about your tax bill or how much the evil liberals want to take away the fruits of your labor, just remember that we use slave labor everyday for our products, we look the other way while tyrants rule with iron fists, and while we may intervene once in a while, it is for our own greedy goals, not the goals of freedoms or liberty; if that were the case we wouldnt have supported Saddam for all those years, helped with the fall of the Shah, assisted in building death-squads at School of the Americas, given China preferential trading status, coddled dynasties in Azerbaijan, or murderous thugs in Afghanistan, dens of vipers in Saudi Arabia, or ignore the 24,000 people a day who die of hunger...may the fruits of your labor turn bitter in the sun of truth.

By the way, when scared little men, with itchy trigger fingers such as yourself find hatred behind every corner, I pity you. This world is filled with joy and happiness which comes from simple pleasures, a balance with your surroundings, there are people who find joy with situations you and I would call perverse torture, and they are the ones im fighting for. Stop making this world out to be a hellish place that you can go around making wars and death for ideals you subvert whenever it raises your bottom line. Death is not a virtue, and Jesus went to the temple not to fight a war, but to turn back the vipers who feed from material treasures while ignoring noble truths. This world is made for the meek, and your six figure tax bill means nothing since you obviously don't know how to appreciate the rest of the populations who can't be as fortunate as you or I.

Peace!

Third Eye- Thanks for pointing out what I believe to be the true Christian spirit. While as an ex-president, Ronald Reagan gave 2 million $ speeches-compare that to Jimmy Carter who has worked with Habitat for Humanity, or Bill Clinton who is working to wipe out aids world-wide. That spirit comes from within-it can't be legislated by the Christian right and forced down the throats of the rest of us.
What happened to feeding the hungry, healing the sick and ministering to the poor? Treating thy neighbor as thyself? Translation: be a good citizen of the world. That is true Christianity-not what we are seeing now.

Note to kritter: Bill Clinton charges $200,000 - $600,000 for his speaking engagements. I am not sure how much Carter charges but I am sure he doesn't spew his anti-American rhetoric for free.

Kritter,

Well, we on the right still don't know what gets you so upset about Falwell - he's just a Christian minister who has tried to do the best he can; and he's retired from the political field to devote his time to his ministry.

Robertson is out there on his own, as is Savage - Coulter isn't nearly as bad as you make out, and the rest of them are completely mainstream...in contrast, you've got Michael Moore.

Q.E.D.

Ash,

Why so much hatred?

It is a difficult question to answer because one doesn't wish to pour too much more fuel on the leftwing fire - it is already burning quite hot and destructive enough.

I'll just say that those who hate President Bush have a very, very strange worldview - and that the problem lies with themselves, not with President Bush.

TEO,

It is common sense because it is based in Christian ideals, don't you see? What you consider the "no duh" basics of life are really just deeply ingrained, Judeo-Christian ideas of what is right and wrong. You might like to think that the common sense basics were just thought up once upon a time and then ingrained in to society via argument and precept, but what they actually are is the basic, God-given morality imbued in all human beings from the get go.

What you on the left have been doing for two centuries now is trying to heave overboard common sense - to replace it with what you have thought up...in this example, the absurd concept that a woman should go places unescorted by some sort of protection against the male predators who exist because human beings are fallen creatures (another bit of Christian thinking which makes a hash out of leftwing ideals).

As for transubstantiation and purgatory - you can argue all you wish that God cannot transubstantiate the Host, but that would be rather foolish of you to argue...and those of us who are rational are grateful there is a place where we can pay for our sins short of eternal damnation.

Mark,

You're missing my point completely.

When did christianity co-opt common sense?

If you take a look at the history of the hebrews, their system of laws was a direct influence of the Sumerian culture, and to a lesser extent the Babylonians. ~600bce the babylonian captivity diffused the knowledge of the Sumerian 'Enuma Elish' which was widely known and used, and is the extended version of Genesis. The Sumerian "The Me" which was the predecessor of the Hebrew/Jewish philosophy and laws.

"In a city that has no watch dogs, the fox is the overseer

Flatter a young man, he’ll give you anything;

Throw a scrap to a dog, he’ll wag his tail.

A sweet word is everybody’s friend.

If you take the field of an enemy, the enemy will come and take your field.

Conceiving is nice; pregnancy is irksome.

For a man’s pleasure, there is marriage;

On thinking it over, there is divorce."

As you can see this document which predates Hebrews by about 2000 years is certainly similiar in a lot of ways to proverbs. Infact the entier idea of the Hebrews writing a new religion was based on the common-sense that you have to have some sort of existing pool of knowledge to borrown and edit from; this is that pool of knowledge.

You can see other 'borrowed' texts when you compare things such as Proverbs of Solomon to the Wisdom of Anemope (an egyptian text of accumulated wisdom), and the 'Papyrus of Ipuwer' and 'Exodus'; which makes complete sense since the end of the Old Kingdom lines up perfectly with the most up to date estimates of the flight from Egypt.

This history is just to show you that your claim upon all things "common sense" as a christian ideal, is poppycock, since the christians borrowed their common sense from a long line which came before them, it's much more appropriate to say that the monotheistic and Eastern philosophies which all emerged at about the same time (~600bce), were teaching very similar codes of conduct and social law. So when you look at philosophers such as Lao-Tzu, Confuscius, and Buddah, they were teaching 'godless wisdom' right along with Isaiah and his morphing of old Hebrew into something newer. Infact the Hebrew prophets were much more concerned with the nuts and bolts of religion and not ethics. It wasn't until about 600bce when Jeremiah and Ezekiel began to emphasize “individual responsibility" within their people that you begun to see the foundation for what you can call now Christianity.

I don't want to drone on about ancient history too much, because it starts to delude the point. But when you claim that all things 'understood' in society are the exclusive domain of christian philosophy and teachings, it begins to paint a picture that christianity has somehow gone beyond these other schools of thought, when in reality it progressed parallel, and in some cases perpendicular to the rest of the world and its schools of thought. The political and social philosphies we have today in america decent from the great thinkers of the day including Voltaire and Paine and our Founding fathers who ran the gamut from devout Christian, Atheism, and Deism, and borrowed heavily from Greek thinkers such as Parmenides, Empedocles, and Democritus, just to name a few.

Not to keep throwing barbs, but I guess you could compare the "common sense" of the Israelites to that of ours today, where they went about killing and stealing the land of Canaan from the Philistines, and then used the idea of Moses and Joshua "seizing their promised land" to retroactively justify it, even though it was a term which didn't even come into existence until about 500bce.

TEO,

Ah, the college Prof got at ya..."bce"...and just what is that? The "common era"? Common to what? When did China start using our calendar? Just as an aside - that is just an attempt to de-Christianise history. Sorry, but it is Anno Domini, 2006; what you are referring to is time before Christ.

Perhaps, though, I didn't explain things well - the common sense is Judeo-Christian in the sense that the Judeo-Christian religion is THE religion; the one from everlasting to everlasting; God's religion, as it were. Given that God is outside of time, there isn't a God did this yesterday and that today about it - it is all there, right with God, in its entirety. What seems to us to happen in sequence, happens with God all at once. The old ways are not old - they are just the ways.

God writes morality on the human heart - even those who have never heard of God, have written on their hearts the basics of God's morality. Thus we can see in pre-Judeo-Christian thinking many inklings of what was, properly, Judeo-Christian ideals. This is why we Christians are confident that people like Marcus Aurelius and Akehnaten are in heaven - because even though they had never heard of Christianity, they followed the ethic all humans have from God. They still came to the Father by the only means possible, via Jesus, but as Jesus is eternally begotten of the Father, he was able to take to the Father even those who were born "before" Jesus incarnated - or those who never heard of him even after he did so.

As there is only one Reason in the universe, so all things which are reasonable come from Him - if there is common sense, it is from God; and therefore it is Judeo-Christian in essentials.

Mark ----Are you kidding? Coulter isn't that bad? Falwell just doing the best he can?

Ann supported apartheid in S.Africa because the white population "was surrounded by savages". Nice, mainstream comment there. Other notable positions:

Maintains liberals hate America, wants to send them to GTMO

Stated Saddam was to get uranium from Niger----months after this was debunked by Stephen Hadley

After 9/11 advocated invading muslim countries and converting them to Christianity

Has suggested numerous times that the 19th amendment (allowing women to vote) be repealed so that more Republicans could be elected.

Suggested giving rat poison to S.C. Justice, John Paul Stevens-then claimed it was a joke--how humorous can you get?

Said her only problem with terrorist Tim McVeigh, was that he didn't blow up NYT building.

So much material, so little time-but lets move on to Jerry Falwell:

On Muhammad-"I think Muhammad was a terrorist" --that's right offend 1 billion Muslims!
Stated Jews cannot go to heaven w/o converting to Jesus.
Thinks labor unions should read the Bible instead of asking for more money---workers would be poor, but happier.
Said Aids was the wrath of G-D against homosexuals. "To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's charioteers." "Aids is the punishment not only for homosexuals, but for the society that tolerates homsexuals."
Like liberals are stuck with Michael Moore, right wingers are stuck with your nutters--including Robertson and Savage.

Mark,

There is a flaw in your logic. If God is non-linear, and the logic and philosophy that you claim to be the exclusive domain of judeo/christian thought came from previous sources, as i've already made clear, it would be much more correct to refer to our system as the Sumerian/Mesopotamian system; I mean if all things are just masks of the one true God, and Sumerians culture and philosophy spawned all later forms, then the truth lies somewhere within the earliest text (basic "Q" theory).

Your attempt to attribute all things ancient with a much more modern form of the same belief is sloppy thinking at best; or if you prefer to think of Christianity as the destination of a long journey, the final covenant, then how do you explain the rapture not being upon us? or the prophecy of Jesus that there would be another after him? Or even the emergence of religions such as B'hai and Islam which claim geneological roots predating Christianity, so you can see there are many groups who claim the same thing christianity does, so the question is to what level we hold all their claims, and that level unfortunately rests squarely on faith.

I don't want this to turn into a debate about dogma and scripture, since it will never end, and im sure we will end up back at the same place we have started. My point is that while it is admirable and very correct from a socio-biological standpoint, that there are common human predispositions to "morals", those morals are 'ornimated' through the culture in which you are brought up, and those cultures have shared a very diverse background, so again, to claim that for a culture to grow outside of judeo/christian thought and philosophy, and yet to contain a vast majority of the same kernel, to me, alludes to my belief in one true God/Godess/Universe/Brahma/All that is, but that ideal was presented as far back as Sumerians Culture which held all their "Gods" (Annunaki) were spawned from one source, one spring ["An"]; so your faith and my faith are paralell, but I see Christianity as on par with the rest of the religious/philosophical stripes, and not somehow more relevant or meaningful, although very much worthwhile to learn and understand.

the Judeo-Christian religion is THE religion; the one from everlasting to everlasting; God's religion, as it were.

It's nice that you think that. However, you can't prove it in the slightest--you merely believe it--and you can't impose it upon the multitudes of people who don't buy it. Therein lies one of the major flaws that colors most of your dialogue: You cannot separate belief from fact.

TEO,

There is only one explanation for the existence of this wonderful and expansive universe and earth that we live in,!! Almighty God !!

Ok! Almighty God sent his son Jesus to die on an old rugged cross just for you and the rest of the world to be able to have an escape from a place called hades!

No other man in the history of mankind has ever done that for you, Ok!

His word is the only word that has ever stood the test of time it has outlasted every storm, every peril that this old sinful world has thrown at it, IT's called the Holy writ!

It's inerrant & infallible Why? because it dwells in those that the Holy spirit has been welcomed!

His word will see you through any kind of imaginable problem that this life has to offer!

All Jesus asks of you is that you follow him, and he will make you the most happy person you could ever imagine, Don't get me wrong though, it's not easy being a christian, but his reward is waiting in heaven, that's why he asks for you to not lay up your treasures on earth but in heaven, where He sits at the right hand of the father!

God will do marvellous works for those that trust and believe in him!!

Read sometime about the STONE that the builders rejected!!

Also read the chapter of JOHN in the new testament it tells about Gods unfailing love, for his people, Who are Gods people? Those who believe in him!