With all due respect for Mr. Bush, I do hope it is not the House that compromises.

A deal may be reached, but it is unrealistic to expect that this adminstration, or any other adminstration, can "solve" the immigration problem. We were decades in getting to the place where we are now with it and it will take decades of struggle to get present dilemas behind us. The stakes are huge for millions of people and for all of our major political structures. What Bush can do is fight to get us on the road to recovery. We all like simple pop solutions. Neither the illegal immigration nor the war on terror can be solved with a few quick fixes. We need vision and endurance - qualities that are seldom in good supply in Washington.

Let me quote my congressman . . ."Rest assured that I will not support any legislation that contains amnesty for those who have chosen to break the law and live and work in the country illegally". There doesn't appear to be a lot of room for compromise in his position and I suspect his views represent those of the majority in the House. So . . . either the senate relents or the bill dies.

Anyone with half a brain realizes that Mexicans are coming here for one simple reason: JOBS

Now I've always been taught to attack the root of a problem, not hack at the leaves. Now who is making it so that these workers can find low paying manual and low-skill positions? Well a good slice are local business, mostly food service and construction, but the vast majority is large chains or low-skill manufacturing positions.

It seems to me you make the idea of overlooking these hiring practices on the board-room level very painful, not with fines, but with jail-time, if the CEO is reaping large salaries and compensation for the health an performance of that company. So how about we make them liable to ensure all their managers are following the rules, and TRIPLE checking IDs, also make it so that any company who is found in violation be excluded from ANY local, state, or federal contracts for 10 years, I bet they would have every person who even remotely resembled an illegal alien on the street in a week, and we didn't have to spend a dime.

and when they use their fake ID's to get a job at the cafateria in the State House, we can throw the Governor in jail.

TEO is a typical liberal; ignore the real problem and blame some rich guy. Get a clue, dipstick, they're coming here for a free pull at the government teat.

Ratboy,

Then cut off the teat.

What is the real problem, that we have too few walls?

you build a 50ft wall, they will make a 51ft ladder...in 10 years when republicans are carping about their next dire issue, the border patrol will be cut, just like it was all through REPUBLICAN and DEMOCRATIC administrations, and when you have too few guys, manning all the fancy cameras and predators we are going to buy, the influx will continue...why, because we got the jobs they want. So stop pretending that complaining and not presenting your own ideas does anything but make you look even more partisan and silly than you have over the past week LOL!!

You make it so that industries who rely on both government contracts and illegal workers have to choose between one or the other, and i can guarantee they will choose their contracts. Or are you advocating that big business can break the laws?

Once again, your ignorance is astounding.
It’s already for unlawful for any company doing business with the government to hire illegal immigrants, moron.

Ratboy,

you can make all the laws you want, but if noone is keeping track of them, then who the hell ever knows?

at wehirealiens.com you can find a whole range of business who have hired illegal workers, some of which do have contracts with the US government, for instance this one who does sub-contract work with the USAF.

http://www.regentaerospace.com/

sticks and stones will break mt bones, but people like you make me laugh LOL!!

Thanks for the info; what happens if Regent Aerospace finds out that you have posted a libelous statement regarding their company?
Good luck with that.

Interesting, one anonymous source says there is illegal’s working for that company, offers no proof and you repeat this as a fact. I think you better head out to the exercise yard and wait for the black helicopters to arrive.

Ratboy,

thats my point exactly, we spend all this time hemmin' and hawin' about illegals, then we don't enforce the laws we have. So what have we done with tougher laws if we don't enforce the ones we have, isn't that the problem we face at the moment, noone is checkin' if these aerospace companies or mcdonalds or lawncare services are following the rules. If we made it so dangerous to a business to even THINK about hiring an illegal alien, with tougher penalties for them, and more rigid surprise inspections, that would make the issue dissapear inside of a week, no business would EVER take the chance of going bankrupt from losing government contracts if we put teeth into our legislation, but instead we pass laws, pat eachother on the back, and the problem continues because noone is taking the stick to thse folks.

Ratboy,

thats my point exactly, we spend all this time hemmin' and hawin' about illegals, then we don't enforce the laws we have. So what have we done with tougher laws if we don't enforce the ones we have, isn't that the problem we face at the moment, noone is checkin' if these aerospace companies or mcdonalds or lawncare services are following the rules. If we made it so dangerous to a business to even THINK about hiring an illegal alien, with tougher penalties for them, and more rigid surprise inspections, that would make the issue dissapear inside of a week, no business would EVER take the chance of going bankrupt from losing government contracts if we put teeth into our legislation, but instead we pass laws, pat eachother on the back, and the problem continues because noone is taking the stick to these folks.

by the way, if it was libel, then this website would have been shut down by litigation already, so obviously these companies don't have the proof on their side to rebut the claims...but thats besides the point, what proof can anyone but the government ever get that can prove there are illegal aliens working at these places? So you're saying that if the government isn't checkin these folks out, and noone else can prove the veracity of the claims, that it's not happening...so can you prove that there aren't illegal aliens working for US government sub-contractors, I argue you can't; so if you can't prove they aren't breaking laws, after being accused of doing just that, then what makes you think the government is in any sort of hurry to cut off the contracts to them, there is a supreme lack of oversight!

Is your only knowledge of the law from being arrested?

You can explain to Regent why you're spreading libelous statements about them. And "noone" is not a word.

Define "amnesty".

I think right now it is being defined pretty broadly as anything which allows illegals to remain in the country. However, if we were to narrow the definition to allowing ilegals to remain in the country with no penalty for entering illegally, it might make it easier to arrive at a compromise.

Personally, I think that anything which allows illegals to thumb their noses at our laws and disrespect our country, for selfish reasons, and then proceeds to reward those same people with a path to citizenship, is without a doubt "amnesty".

But I would accept a compromise which allows some of the illegals, those with jobs or families to support them and who have not been criminals while here, to remain under certain rigid conditions---but which eliminates any possibility of ever achieving citizenship.

Entering the country illegally is only a misdemeanor. It's silly to think we should impose a huge penalty for a minor crime, a crime which has been accepted within this country as meaningless. We have to take some responsibility for basically encouraging people to break that law by sending the clear message that we would not do anything about it. I guess we could almost be guilty of a form of entrapment.

So we screwed up, and we have to pay the price---and that price will be some way to allow people to remain here.

Amnesty is giving them the same rights as those who followed the law and went through the legal channels to become citizens.

There is a middle ground, which is to demand that all illegals here now register, within a certain and fairly short time period, and to make it a felony to remain here without registering. It is to allow these people to stay, under specific and somewhat strict rules (no crimes, speak English, study how to act in America such as not using emergency rooms for regular health care, have car insurance, etc...) for some period of time.

It is NOT to treat them the same way we treat law-abiding immigrants. And it sure as HELL ain't to officially forgive their taxes. I'll tell you this right now---if a law is passed to officially and legally forgive even one year of taxation out of the last five, I will sue for the same consideration. I am tired of a multi-tiered legal system, where legal tax-paying citizens are essentially penalized for that, while illegals are treated better than we are. That tax-forgiving thing was the goofiest thing I have heard come out of Washington since "what is is".

"I'll tell you this right now---if a law is passed to officially and legally forgive even one year of taxation out of the last five, I will sue for the same consideration."-Almiranta

You'll have a lot of company. Class action lawsuit anyone?

Ratboy,

as I thought, you get shutdown again after making stupid comments. It gets less and less fufilling watching your rhetoric crash and burn; but i'll keep on, keepin' on.

--by the way thanks for the heads up on my missing of spaces, i'll be sure to correct things such as thi sin the future

xoxoxo

Ratboy,

as I thought, you get shutdown again after making stupid comments. It gets less and less fufilling watching your rhetoric crash and burn; but i'll keep on, keepin' on.

--by the way thanks for the heads up on my missing of spaces, i'll be sure to correct things such as thi sin the future

xoxoxo

TEO,
WTF are you talking about, moron?
You start with an idiot premise that companies doing business with the government must decide if they want to hire illegals or continue doing business with the government. After I point out that it’s already unlawful you prattle some nonsense about “noone is checking” then source an anonymous letter that states that the government checked the very company you listed as violating the law.
Either your tin-foil hat is on too tight or the other inmates have beaten the sense out of you. Pick a story and stick with it. Christ, it’s like arguing with a four-year old!

Ratboy,

Read the post on wehirealiens.com, it claimed the government did a raid; now it stands to reason that if they were raiding the place they had evidence, or atleast information that illegals were working there.

Now, if these aliens aren't on the books, and the government can't make a case against the offenders because they are being tipped off, then what the hell is the point in making laws if we aren't going to enforce them?

My point was regarding the implamentation of the laws, toughen them, put teeth on them, make it so an independant entity is responsible for checking up on these sub-contractors so that they aren't getting heads-up from the good ole' boys network that obviously exists now.

As it stands now, blowhards such as yourself wanna complain, but conveniently ignore your cronies who are getting fat on our dollars by breaking the law. You ignore that the responsibility eventually lays down at the feet of the employer, I know you conservative types love to talk about supply-side, but take a page from Keynes book and deal with the demand for cheap labor by actually doling out some heavy-handed justice as a warning to those who think they can slide by indefinately.

sticks and stones buddy boy, sticks and stones...

xoxoxo

TEO,
You speak like every other liberal who’s never had to meet a payroll.

There are forms and documentation that must be filed by any company or organization that wants to procure a government contract. Among these are the I-9 (right to work) forms for all employees. Additionally, all payroll records have to be open to the government inspectors. Why would any employer risk their government contracts to hire an illegal? The employer can’t pay the illegal less than any other employee, or skip the payroll taxes; the records would show that. They can’t pay them “under the table” the inspectors would find this straight away, and what’s the point? The contract will reimburse the business for the true payroll costs.

My wife's company does work for the State, believe me, this isn't easy, and in most cases it's easier to pass on the government contract and stay in the private sector.

INS doesn’t raid companies based on government contracts they raid based on observation, tips, and local police cooperation; every raid is almost always accompanied by a lawsuit filed by the ACLU. Tell the liberals to call off the dogs and the INS would be happy to arrest illegals.

I agree that there should be enforcement to discourage employers from hiring illegals, but the ones with government contracts are not the root of the problem, even government agencies hire illegals with fake documents; if the government cannot be 100% safe from hiring illegals, with all the resources available to them, how do you expect the la Pequeña Berenjena Feliz Landscaping company to be safe from hiring an illegal?

Now look what you've done, Bane---you've gone and injected fact and reason into what was a perfectly lovely liberal rant. Not that it will matter, but it was a good try.

What's with TEO's obsession with Rathaven? Sounds personal to me. Between the RH paranoia and the lefty cant about "good ole boy networks" and "cronies" he seems to have gone quite far off the deep end---of the left side of the pool, obviously.

I'm still trying to figure out who is getting "fat" on HIS "dollars". That makes no sense at all. The way I see it, the big bad evil corporations, who were the source of all that was bad in the universe till Bush came along, are hiring illegals for wages really really really far below what they would have to pay TEO if he wanted their jobs, and then getting really really really rich because of the increased profit margins. At least that is what I think the incoherent posts are trying to say. But I can't figure out how they are getting so obscenely rich on OUR dollars. Or on TEO's, or whoever he was talking about.

But as I have said in another thread, as far as I can tell there are some big companies which hire a lot of illegals, like Swift, the big slaughterhouse and meatpacking company. Ooops...'CORPORATION'. I don't know if they use cronies or good ole boys to do this. But they seem to think they would have a hard time getting your average American to clean up cow guts all day long, or to kill cows for a living. I have no reason to think they pay illegals less than they pay anyone else. They are on record, as they pay FICA and SS and so on, on their wages, even though the SS numbers are fake.

But around here, most of the illegals work for small independent construction companies, building houses and fixing roofs, and the really unskilled work for temporary day worker agencies. A lot do landscaping---and very few for the huge monolithic international landscaping CORPORATIONS that rule the industry.

I guess TEO just lives in a different world than we do. Or on a different planet...

Almiranta,
Precisely,
Ancillary to their argument is the “tax the rich” and the “bosses are exploiting the workers” saw. It’s easy for people that don’t have to pay the taxes of the wealthy to demand that the rich pay more, just as it’s easy to assume that greedy corporate moguls are wilfully hiring all the illegals and thus creating the crisis. Just punish the employer and the immigration (illegal and otherwise) will stop. Workers of the world, unite …

The Swift company is probingly like most companies around; many openings for gut-wrenching jobs, pun intended, and a small workforce rushing to fill those jobs at any price. They would have their fair share of legal immigrants willing to do the jobs, and grateful for the opportunity. And, the employer would be foolish to turn away these workers as they have probably proven themselves to be dedicated, hard working and dependable.

Now the problem, along with these folks with the right to work in the US there are also those that shouldn’t be here in the first place. These workers can produce the same documents as their legal counterparts and once again the employer can’t send them away, because he cannot be sure which is which. If you want to see how fast a lawsuit develops, just try not hiring an Hispanic because you believe his or her papers are fake without proof, hell even with proof the lawyers will chew the employer up for discrimination.

Companies like Swift made a conscious decision to shut down on May Day for many reasons; not the least of which is the suspicion that would be attached to any worker that didn’t show up for work because they were attending a rally for the illegals. Think about it, Jose doesn’t come to work, you’ve suspected that he may be working illegally so now what? Call the INS and have what might be a legal worker hauled out of the plant, questioned then released? Maybe it isn’t good PR to have the INS questioning all of your Hispanic workers on the 6 o’clock news.

At my place of employment, we had several workers that I hired, I checked their backgrounds and I’m convinced that they have the legal right to work here. When the time came for the Hispanic community to join together to march into town in support of the illegals, these workers went home and quickly. Explaining the next day that they didn’t need the hassle of proving, yet again that they have the right to live and work here.

I guess my point is that we are employers, not evil money-grubbing soulless heartless rich white Republicans. We shouldn’t have to be in the detective business every time we need to hire someone to sweep the slaughterhouse floor. I know that’s slightly at odds with what you have written, vis-à-vis enforcement of existing laws by punishing the employers.

My bet is that TEO is an employee that thinks the “bosses” sit around smoking cigars and laugh about how they cheat the plebeians. I’d guess he never got the raise he thought he deserved, so the evil bosses don’t deserve the money they make.

Okay, we do sit around smoking cigars; Cusano 18 is my personal favorite, but we don’t laugh at the workers where they would be able to hear us.

I should point out that I no longer own or run any companies other than joint ownership, by virtue of marriage, of my wife's law firm, but I do some of the hiring here at the University.

I forgot to mention my solution; SECURE THE DAMN BORDERS!