And those oh so tolerant democrats at democraticunderground wholeheartedly agree that Bush should be shot between the eyes. What lovely people democrats are.

How can you be so sure that he wasn't advocating violence against the president? His words were very clear and specific. Anyone that that would publicly utter such an insane remark could certainly be over the edge.

Well,

If this is accurate, I will admit it would be in incredibly poor taste and a foolish statement. I have little doubt however that this was taken a few hundred yards out of context however.

The President IS a war criminal, but so is Saddam.

The president SHOULD be held accountable for illegal wiretaps, Saddam should be held accountable for genocide. Genocide, I might add, only made possible by Ronny Regan when he supplied all those nice deadly nerve agents to Saddam in the 80's.

No Matt, violence against Bush is not the answer, but he should be sent to prison for a long, long time for the atrocities that he has committed during the past 5 years. Hundreds of thousands of people that were alive when Clinton took office are now dead, thanks to this president. Add war crimes and torture and rendition to the mix and send him to the dock in the Hague to stand trial.

Dick Cheney is also an accomplice to all the wrong doings of the bush crime family. Additionally, he should be investigated for war profiteering off the Iraq war, as should the entire bush family, including Jr, Sr, Jeb, neil and marvin

But it all begins with investigations and impeachment. I have faith that when the democrats take control of at least the house in November, they will launch investigations that is sure to uncover enough wrong doing and lawbreaking to impeach this president and send him and Dick cheney home for good.

Then, once the cancer is cut out of the white house, regardless of if you have a Republican or Democrat to take the place of the disgraced president and vice president, america will be far better off and on the road to recovery.

BTW: A poll released today reveals the obvious. President Bush was overwhelmingly voted by both republicans and democrats to be the WORST president in american history. The consolation is of course that Regan was voted the best in 61 years with Clinton a close runner up.

I guess advocating Bush get a bullet between the eyes, is about on par with actually signing the death warrant of 2400 people and countless Iraqis...tolerance

The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Democrats blow... and Republicans suck.
--Lewis Black

Just goes to show that there are idiots on both sides.

Axis-

I'd hate to rain on your parade, but Clinton was also close in the running for the worst president in the last 60 years.

Georgia,

He was listed at the bottom of the worst president for republican pollsters, but also

" In the best president category, Ronald Reagan edged Clinton, 28 to 25 percent, but again, party sentiment helped. Fifty-six percent of Republicans rated Reagan the best post-war president "

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2006/06/posted_by_david.html

Democrats - good. Denigrate your opponents. Threaten to shoot them. Make baseless accusations.

But wait, we've got the guns! You hate them. Remember? Maybe you shouldn't advocate a civil war after all.....

Is it OK if I advocate killing certain liberals I don't like (I say don't like, because I'm not full of hate like you wackos are)? Would it be OK if I put a bounty out on them? Heck, maybe on YOU? Obviously not.

Your continued warped, hate filled, and violent rants will keep you out of power no matter how much we conservatives screw up. You're like rabid dogs. Rabid dog democrat – hey, I like that.

kahn

Most liberals are ok with most all guns and most own them. It is only certain ones that we have issues with, such as ones that are only suitable for criminal activities, such as fully auto machine guns etc.

Society must place limits on the right to bear arms, as that can cover RPG's, rocket launchers and many other things that have no place in society.

Handguns, fine, long guns, fine. Fully auto machine guns? There is no legimate use for such things other than to collect dust in a cabinet.

axis - what lable would u use 4 clinton doing NOTHING while ONE MILLION RWANDANS WERE HACKED TO PIECES?

Georgia

I think you're forgetting Jimmy Carter, how could anyone forget 21% interest rates, 10% inflation, and the fact he gave Iran to the Islamofascists.

CJ-

I'm just going by the poll that axis was talking about. Carter definately wasn't a good president, but the poll is the poll.

Of the weapons sales to Iraq during the days of Saddam Hussein prior to 1990 Russia supplied 57% of total sales to Iraq. The USA supplied 1%. Iraq's chief military suppliers were Russia, France, and China. This is not to suggest that any weapons sales to Saddam was justified. Any support to Iraq during this time was done to try and contain Iran. Again, this is not to justify this policy but it does supply some useful context.

CJ,

Do you get excited, i mean sexually, when you think you can lay some blame at the feet of a democrat?

How does it make you feel to know your buddy Reagan and Bush Sr. were authorizing military supplies and chemical weapons shipments to Rummy's good buddy Saddam, or who can forget Slick Dick Nixon and his candid squawk-box sessions, just admit it, the Republicans and Democrats are just as slimy, the sooner you realize this, the sooner we can get on with fixing the problems that the buy-out of america has caused.

One thing is for sure, you get sexually aroused anytime an American soldier is killed.

What's with all of this sexual arousal crap?

Bringing sex into political discussion just makes sex that much dirtier.

Hey Third Eye Open,

You can make your point perfectly with out the 1st sentence.

i am not defending comments made in poor taste by a dem (or anyone). . but come on. i guess this kind of stuff is exciting when you have to blog 4-5 times a day, but its dishonest to paint the entire democrats m.o. on the comments of one pretty low-level dude.

i mean really. everytime dobson says something studpid or fallwell says something incomprhensible your opponents do not attribute their assinine rantings to ALL repubs.

we all know there are stupid things being said on both sides of the aisle.

"but Saddam Hussein was a great leader for Iraq."
show me 1 dem who said this.
saying things like this weeken your own argument.

seems there is there is some reporting left for bfb to do finish this story up.

http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=4977088
Hevesi called a news conference to apologize, even before most of the news media knew he'd made the remark. "It was a remarkably stupid, inappropriate and offensive comment," he says.

Where did it come from? "The overflow from my stupid gland," he offered.

this makes it irresoinsible to smear his retracted comments on all dems as an m.o.

Typical,
Make an inflammatory remark, say you're sorry and *bingo* it's all over.
Maybe Bush should just apologize for winning the election and the moonbats will all go away happy.
Btw, how about Hilary Clinton singing Saddams praises in 2004, "(Hilary) praised the Iraqi dictator for granting women a measure of equality, saying that under Saddam's rule 'they went to school; they participated in the professions, they participated in the government and business and, as long as they stayed out of [Saddam's] way, they had considerable freedom of movement.'" Talk about beyond dumb!

Bane,

Does that mean we can hold her in the same regards as Der Leader:

"I don't really think about him [Osama] much"

or, does an apology for "Bring it on" make it all better when you fan the flames of war as a sitting world-power leader?

Axis,

Posting comments to raise some cash for the weekend?

Axis,

No legally registered fully automatic machine gun has ever been used in a crime. Not one. Not ever. No Barrett .50 calbre rifles have ever been used in a crime. Not one. Not ever. Yet, California outlawed them.

And. In YOUIR country harly anyone owns guns because of very restrictive gun laws - so you are full of crap. In THIS country nearly every county voted Republican. The major metropilitan areas voted Democrat. Most guns are outside the metro areas. Conservatives own guns. Some Democrats do also - sure. And they ignore the liberal gun phobia because other isses are more important to them (Union, abortion, whatever).

Liberals / Progressives / Democrats = tolerant, caring, compassionate....SORT OF, MAYBE, SOMETIMES

Third Eye - what a bunch or crap (as usual).

Name one weapons system or weapon type provided to Sadaam's Iraq by the United States? His tanks? Russian designs from eastern block countries. Ditto for his artillary, airplanes, and most small arms. His trucks - some of the same but also french and German. His Radars and SAM's? Russian. He made the chemical weapons himself.

So just what did "ZRummy" and Cheney supply him with? Romulan disruptors and Federation Phasers?

Your hate filled blindness is staggering. Once agai, back to that. You hate us. You don't care what the facts are. Liberal;s attacked Republicans last presidential ellection by shooting into, firebombing, and ransacking Republican offices all over the nation. In Ohio Democrat operatives slashed the tires of and otherwise disabled Republican "get-out-the-vote" vehicles on election day.

You regularly shout down conservatives at public forums, especially universities. And you advocate violence against specific Republicans and Republicans in general. yes - you would feel right at home in 1932 Munich. Hey - how about you have us sew yellow elephants on out shirts so you can more easily attack us in public?

Kahn

As all clear thinking individuals know we gave Saddam some intelligence from our satellites about Iran's troop movement and a few of the chemical precursors. It totaled less than 1% of his arsenal.

Well taht is a lot different than weapons isn't it?

You KNOW we gave him intelligence? The Iranians and the Iraqi's fought like idiots. They'd line up across from each other and charge straight ahead. What excatly do you think we gave him.

And, precursors? Give us a list. Were they dual use or single use. Are you saying that the government supplied Sadaam with required materials to develop chmical weapons? Or, did Sadaam buy commercial items that may, or may not have been used that way. And since they were not on a "forbidden" list we couldn't really stop it?

But oh are we in a different league that Third Eyes lie filled post.

Ok, ill rebut your silly argument Kahn:

Vehicles: Following its sister company in Italy, Bell Textron got into the act in late 1984 with a proposal to sell 48 Bell Textron 214 ST utility helicopters. A version of this helicopter, sold around the world as a military transport and commando support machine, had been reclassified as a civilian aircraft, and arms broker Sarkis Soghenalian proposed selling them to Iraq for "recreational" purposes and "VIP transport." This deal was approved by the Reagan Administration.

When the delivery of these helicopters was discussed with U.S. Embassy officials in Baghdad in late 1984 and again in early 1985, they were concerned that these aircraft could be used for Medevac purposes or as troop carriers. But in a written reply to Congress, Secretary of State Shultz stated in November 1984 that "increased American penetration of the extremely competitive civilian aircraft market [in Iraq] would serve the United States' interests by improving our balance of trade, and lessening unemployment in the aircraft industry."

Chemical Weapons: "Nor did the United States government ignore the fact that Iraq was developing a broad-based chemical weapons manufacturing base. The State Department delivered the first of more than 100 official "demarches" or protests to the West German governments on sales of CW technology to Iraq by German companies in 1983. Despite this, between 1985 and 1989 the Commerce Department approved fourteen separate shipments described as "Bacteria, fungus, protozoa," most of which were sent directly to the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission"

im sure we couldn't have possibly known that stuff was dual use, it was totally for "research"

Political Operatives: We got some stupid, hateful people on our side, its happens when you piss people off enough I suppose, doesn't make it right, but are you gonna tell me you guys don't have stupid hateful people who call themselves republicans? I love the selective memory of you guys, you can't get your big tent in order, but you still have the balls to tell us WE are messed up, if I remember my Dante correct, hypocrites have a special place in Hell.

anymore stupid questions buddy-boy?

TEO - but, this was in '84 and '85 as you say. Not Rumsfeld and Cheney. It was before the war. And before his genocide attacks. And well - did we sell them to him?

And as YOU say the Germans sold him the chemical and biological weapons materials. And, we protested. WE PROTESTED. What would you have us do, declare war on Germany?

How's that for actually reading your own post stupid buddy boy? Maybe instead of just pasteing this crap in, you could actually read it.

Reagan wanted to allow a European arms supplier to sell a number of helicopters classified as civilian use to Iraq. They have a pretty big oil industry there you know. Helicopters are common. Could they have been used for military uses? Yes. Bicycles can and have been used for military uses. Were these helicopters used by Sadaams military? No.

Germany sells stuff to Iraq we know is bad. As you say, we protes dozens of times. The greedy Europeans don't care. Byr - WE DIDN'T sell them this crap. Get it? Read your own post.

Idiot

Kahn,

You're making up my point as you go along, and while im glad your neurons still fire, stop making assumptions about what the argument I was raising is:

I don't think any american in 1984, 1985 or 2006 wanted to be selling ANYTHING!!!! to a guy who upon overthrow of the previous government (who overthrew the previous government LOL) went on a rampage murdering political opponents, not a good start to relations, but none the less, we wanted their oil so we played ball.

In what morally relative world do you live in where the access to resources advocates we sidestep the foundations of our founding fathers to preserve life and liberty? Or do our morals change as our comfort expectations change?

plain and simple, we knew how bad this guy was from day one, yet we played ball like the good little petro-junky we are just to get our next cheap fix, morals be-damned.

you may scoff at some helicopters and trucks, but our own people on the ground were telling us these things had obvious military uses, at the same time we had a full embargo against cuba, for what amounts to ideological differences, yet a much more iron handed, despicable, ruthless, yet resource rich despot is coddled and treated to VIP status because we wanted to see Iran punished, how wise and benevolent we are!

so stop pretending like this wasn't bad policy by your raisin-headed guru Reagan or any of the other ditto-heads he spawned. If you think this is a "Hate America First" speach, youre sadly mistaken, this is me being pissed at the bad name our government gives us around the world, inspite of the wonderful things the american PEOPLE do.

Kahn,

By the way, why were we sending them "Bacteria, fungus, protozoa" AFTER we knew he gassed his own people? Seems to me us sending ANYTHING but a butt-ton of patriots his way is another example of us side-stepping our morals to keep the cheap oil coming, I bet you ask anyone in 1989 whether they advocated us sending things which could be used to create chemical and biological weapons to a man who just killed his own people, and they would look at you the same way I look at all your excuses, with a "HUH?!"

Despite Turd Eye repeating his nonsense, the biological specimens were sent to many countries to help them prepare vaccines.

And TE, Bush said he “regretted” the “Bring it on” statement. By your own standard you can never bring it up again!

Germany was sending that crap. For crying out loud read your own post. Germany isn't a U.S. state is it? Did I miss something?

And, we sell stuff to peole all over the world all the time. If I remember correctly, this was just after Iran illegally captured our embassy and kept our people hostage for a year. So, OK that was under Carter - but they were only released the day Reagan was sworn in. We had a different view of the area back then. You guys make it seem like we were propping him up with massive aid. Wrong - we sold him (through European arms dealers) a tiny amount of material that could have been used for military purposes. But the helicpters were not used by the military. So, maybe, coulda, shoulda, they weren't.

But - well I guess back to the original subject. It's OK to advocate killing Republicans because 22 years ago we were willing to sell civilian helicopters to Iraq. And, we didn't nuke Germany for selling them bio material. And, we didn't nuke the Soviets for selling them tanks, airplanes and actual military helicopters. You pip.

Bane,

why wouldnt the UN or some other NGO be sending material to such a bad man's country? You'de think if we occupied the moral highground we would take every opportunity to disassociate ourselves with this guy pronto. How many times have we sent biological materials to Cuba, oh wait, thats right there is an embargo, we don't deal with people who we deam "bad", atleast not in supplying them with materials which could be used to make weapons.

Kahn,

Youre making points up again as you go, I dont advocate killing anyone, I was making a tongue-in-cheek comment about the premise of the story, that somehow one stupid comment makes everyone even mildy associated with them, ready to put a bullet in his head, its the fallacy of composition.

the point you guys wont conceed is that america does some pretty slimy stuff for not so good reasons. We want cheap oil, big whoop, our bustling economy doesn't justify us turning blind eyes or even helping out with the sujugation and outright genocide of civilians. We knew this guy gassed iranians, in direct violation of our own morally justified rules of engagement, yet we welcomed him in because he provided a strategic and economic gain, so im saying our morals are very loose when it comes to things we really want, I dont think when the american public is faced with facts such as these, they think so highly of what else is being done in their name across the globe

Stink-eye,
Kahn wrote, "Were these helicopters used by Sadaams military? No."
He's right you know, the Iraqi military wasn't able to get any aircraft up against the coalition in 1992, that’s a historic fact.

Why indeed? Ask THEM.

And I guess we must have won the argument since you pulled the typical liberal gambit - move onto another subject.

When will you have us sew the elephants on our chest so you can round us up easier? The New Orleans Police already showed us how you'll ignore the Constitution and confiscate our guns. Was that a slip? Early use of your national plan?

You see no problem advocating the murder of the Republican president. I don't think I'd send YOU any weapons.....

T-Eye,
We send vaccines to Cuba all the time; directly to Cuba and not through any intermediary.
Why not the UN? Because, ye of little practical knowledge, when we gave the UN vaccine to distribute they sold it! (Africa 1978).

im not talking about 1992, im talking about the iran iraq conflict. Just imagine one of these helicopters was used to spread chemical weapons, against military or civilians, we would feel pretty crappy about supplying them, dontcha think...but thats a minute point, it goes farther than helicopters, we were willing to support this guy in his use of WMDs, against our prescribed morals, period, whether that was satellite imagry, or we supplied his whole damn army, its helping.

hey Kahn, we dont control anything,anyone whos rounding up the elephant clad, would be your folks, be afraid

Kahn, he's right! We better recall those bicycles we had Lance take to France! I'd feel awful if any drive-by cheese-ings were done from one of our , bicycles!

Bane,

Youre a liar, we dont send anything resembling vaccines to Cuba:

Havana, Oct 13 (AIN) The Dutch firm Intervet suspended the delivery of a quadruple vaccine to Cuba after US threats of a fine because 10 percent of the product consists of an American antigen.

http://www.ain.cubaweb.cu/2004/octubre/oct13iggenglish04.htm

now you're just making things up

oh, who is changing the subject now?

oh, who is changing the subject now?

is it morally right to help a man who used WMDs against people, troops or otherwise, are our morals that loose, or can we just ignore them when its beneficial?

TEO - you call a bane a liar - after saying "imagine" if the helicopters we made had been used to do bad things? Imagine if we'd sold them phasers - or photon torpedos! You twit!

And sorry you're too slow to get the round up thing. This blog string is in response to a Democratic politician advocating the assination of President Bush in a public forum. And, under Democrat orders New Orleans Police illegaly confiscated firearms from peopls homes - legally owned firearms after Katrina. Only an NRA lawsuit stopped them. Been just under a year now and I don't think they've returned them.

But hey, just cutting and pasteing is way easier that actually reading - isn't it?

But again - HOW did we help him? Are you being this stupid deliberately? We didn't send him military material. We didn't send him chemicals. You "imagined" how bad it would have been.

You're not operating any heavy marchinery while this drunk - are you?

hey, if you wanna change the subject because you cant find anymore facets to spin your way, then fine. ill consider the point conceeded.

democrats say stupid things in hopes their ditto-heads will pat them on the back backstage, its no different than Christians advocating that God strike down democratically leaders of state, or advise their patrons to pray for the death of judges, so clean up your own sewer, and ill make sure i send tha same message to the Dems, cheers

Kahn,

if he used the helicopters to spread poison or good cheer, it doesnt matter, they were bought, paid for, and used by his government, would we have felt the same way about us sending Ford trucks to Hitler, just as long as he didnt use em for bad things?

The embargo on cuba was eased in July 2000 after hurricane Michelle to allow limited amounts and types of medicines to be sent from the US to Cuba. The problem is in the shipping of duel use biologicals. Isn't that sweet, they're taking your advice.

But - did his miliotary use them? Or, the oil company? Would Ford trucks to Germany have been OK for ambulances?

Again though. You made wild accustaions then when they were proven crazy changed to subject. You made these as an off topic post. Then when challenged moved on to Cuba.

And. And. Your answer to Democrats advocating murder is to tell Republicans to clean up THEIR sewer. Great. It was Democrats burning Republican offices last election. It was Democrats ransacking offices and shooting into them. It was Democrats slashing tires. And it was Democrats in new Orleans confiscating legally owned firearms.

You guys scare me. Arrogant, violent, stupid, and hateful. THAT is what you're proud of?

Kahn,

read the record, the only time I changed my topic was when I had to educate you about stupid assertations you were making, I MENTIONED cuba in the context of making a point that we have history of not selling things to people we deem, "Bad"...then you made some silly point that we indeed do give Cuba vaccines, where I immediately reminded you with sourcing that Bush has clamped down on trade with Cuba, not allowing anything even remotely associated with american business in, anything else you wanna muddy the waters about?

The point about selling Fords to hitler, was that its not morally right to sell things to people who we know are madmen and mass-murders, for ANY purpose, we dont even provide services until we can be assured they arent gonna be used for evil, such as a german ambulance that might be used to transport an SS officer to a hospital where he might get medical assistance to continue fighting, capiche?

Fine if you're scared of the minority party, and wanna lay responsibility at the altar of Liberalism because you guys dont have the moral fortitude to look at changing your own problems before you start tossing stones, then so be it, I cant change it, you want me to apologize for crazy people on the left, so be it, ill bear that cross, bad people deserve justice in liberal doses, so remember that when the House is indicting Der Leader.

No legally registered fully automatic machine gun has ever been used in a crime. Not one. Not ever. No Barrett .50 calbre rifles have ever been used in a crime. Not one. Not ever. Yet, California outlawed them.

-- Kahn, I could not help but notice how CAREFUL WORDED your statement above was. I could not help but notice that you diclaimered it with legally registered, even though it is common knowledge that criminals do NOT legally register the weapons they are going to use in a crime moron. In fact, I said nothing about legally registered weapons.

I did say that there is not legal purpose for an average urban joe to own fully automatice assault weapons. Other than collection purposes that is.

I also notice how you also disclaim your statement to indicate that fully auto weapons only covers Beretta 50 cal, even though there are MANY, MANY other kinds.

I also notice that you further disclaim it to indicate I was speaking of California, I was not, was speaking nationwide.

Fully auto weapons are used in crime every day all across the country. Theres no legit for them for civilian purposes and they should be rebanned.

Umm TEO - I never made a point about selling anything to Cuba. But, I guess us Republicans all look alike. Round us up and kill us why don't you? You know you want to.....

The weapons to Iraq stuff you wrote WAS off topic. Now we're squabbling over who posted what when. Instead of condemning a politician urging murder. But hey, I can see what's important to you. It's OK to attack us, because we deserve it.

Axis - who cares what you post. You are right about how I worded it - because criminals do use machine guns. But every day? You are ignorant. Very rarely do criminals use full-auto guns. And, these guns are already illegal for them to own. Some are modified and even manufactured to be that way. So? Your point is?

And can you then cite ONE example of where a .50 caliber rifle was used in a crime? Here is your chance. And, other than those wacko's in California that robbed that bank (the hour long shoot-out they show over and over) with illegally modified guns - can you cite two or three of the "daily" crimes commited with automatic weapons? I mean you say they happen EVERY DAY - so, give a couple of examples.

What about all those body guards and security companies? They own machine guns. I think you'll find that high ranking members of the liberal elite like Hollywood stars, journalists, and politicians are all protected by people with machine gins - often privately owned.

But don't get me wrong. I don't want a Barret (which is NOT a machine gun) because it's enormous and costs like $7000. Legal machine guns start at like $5000 for cheap ones and can go up to $100,000 for rare collectables. They are real fun (if expensive) to shoot. And since not one legal machine gun has ever been used in a crime - why should I submit to your will? If you don't like em - don't buy one. Personally, I can't afford one. It looks to me, like you just think you know best and want to control other people. I thought you were all about liberty and personal freedom? Guess not.

The liberal resistance here to condemning a Democratic politician for urging the murder of the President is telling. Your silence shouts at us.

Sounds like this comptroller is a Randi Rhodes fan.

Axis - who cares what you post. You are right about how I worded it - because criminals do use machine guns. But every day? You are ignorant. Very rarely do criminals use full-auto guns. And, these guns are already illegal for them to own. Some are modified and even manufactured to be that way. So? Your point is?

-- Yes, they use them everyday. Not shooting people with them everyday, however they use it in crimes everyday. Downtown gangbangers arent using peashooters to do drive bys. Russian, Koreanean, Italian mobs don't use slingshots either.

Theres no legit reason that you can justify why society needs to make fully auto weapons available to the public and thats the bottom line

Axis - but no actual examples eh? Just what you see on Police shows? And - no actual .50 calibre example -didn't even try on that one.

Gangbangers use one of a few brands of very cheap (called throw-away) semi-automatic pistols foe almost ALL their crimes. They don't need an extra Federal charge hanging over them. They use these throw-aways, and then throw them away.

And outside the movies - can you name a few of the incidents where these "machine-guns" were used by Korean, Russian, and Italian mobsters? And if by chance - you do find an example - can you tell us if they used legal and registered machine-guns? If not, well they were already breaking the law weren't they?

You just restated your first baseless premise again - as if that proved it. Hmmm, is that what arrogant means?

I'm off to bed - think you can find at least one example by morning?

Kahn,

"Again though. You made wild accustaions then when they were proven crazy changed to subject. You made these as an off topic post. Then when challenged moved on to Cuba."

Sorry, its late, you and Bane thought you could gang up on me, but its telling that neither of you have ANY points to make on the whole subject. Consider my rebuttal, in that case, at both of you, since by reading up thread, you can abviously see BOTH of you were trying to gain some headway on the same issue, is that enough of a history lesson for you?

By the way, just for arguments sake, do you belong to a state regulated militia...nope, didnt think so, so in that case, can you explain to me EXACTLY where your right to bear arms is?

ill give you that to chew on, and we can pick it up later, g'night snuggle-bunches and sweet-dreams.

xoxoxo

kahn,

you seem determined to skew the issue. 50 cals are not the weapons of choice in crimes, many are AK's and AR's

15%-20% of cops killed are by assault weapons, school shootings are commonly done by assault weapons.

illegally registered or registered does not matter. there is no legit use of such weapons by joe six pack

Axis,

Interesting. First - the typical "assault weapon" sold in the United States is NOT full-auto. Second, while your statistics sound imposing - they represent a tiny fraction of overall crime. ALSO, I'd like some real statitics on the school shootings. Seemed there were several with handguns, shotguns, and even a bolt action hunting rifle.

I know that the .50 calibres are a different issue. Yet, they are related. None was ever used in a crime. Yet, California banned them and they were attacked by liberals and the press nationwide. Why? You are right - they are not the weapon of choice. In fact, they've NEVER been used in a crime. Yet - attacked.

So - you changed "machine gun" to "assault weapon" and cited statistics (not examples of machine gun use) that sounded imposing but that actually represent a tiny fraction of crime. What about all the examples where a private firearm PREVENTED a crime?

TEO - stop being a baby will you? You brought up Cuba. You accused me of saying something another poster did. And you do move on when seriously challenged.

The Second Amendment - written by revolutionaries gave the REASON for protecting firearms. But, as their own text shows in other parts of the document - it is not the REQUIREMENT to be filled to own them. They enumerated rights and stated that anything not stated was assumed to be a right.

But hey - I'm glad you're arguing this with me - it lost Kerry five states last election. The Democrats have been in stealth mode on gun control. They realized it was losing them votes. Imagine, the will of the people imposing itself on their baseless views. So - it turns out you do want our guns!

Kahn, you dont get it. The right to bear arms is a broad right. Some could argue it gives you the right to carry an RPG with you in your car. Or hand gernades as you go shopping.

Society has the right and duty to put limitations on that right without infringing on it.

Since a joe six pack has no argueable legal use for an assault weapon, or an AR-15 or AK, then it should be banned or at least extremly restricted.

All you need to look at is the USA's murder rate, one of the highest in the western world and the vast majority...gun crimes.

Kahn,

"it is not the REQUIREMENT to be filled to own them. They enumerated rights and stated that anything not stated was assumed to be a right."

So by quoting the 9th, does that mean we have the right to privacy, abortions on demand, a chicken in every pot, sex with animals, and 500 channels of TV, its not enumerated ( as the issue about guns IS) so it must be upheld under the ninth, right?

Man am I dissapointed the NRA isn't paying YOU to be their constitutional Lawyer LOL!!!

now, you can rewrite history about what I did and didn't discuss, since there are obvious records only a few threads up the chain, I suppose you can quote me on how I changed subject, except when I had to rebut stupid accusations by you and Bane...ill wait.

ok, ill just do it myself, just like a conservative, always doing stupid things, and leaving other people to finish them:

1. “I guess advocating Bush get a bullet between the eyes, is about on par with actually signing the death warrant of 2400 people and countless Iraqis...tolerance”
2. “Does that mean we can hold her in the same regards as Der Leader:
"I don't really think about him [Osama] much"
or, does an apology for "Bring it on" make it all better when you fan the flames of war as a sitting world-power leader?”
--that one was in response to something stupid Bane was asserting, about how he didn’t buy into people’s apologies.
3. “Political Operatives: We got some stupid, hateful people on our side, its happens when you piss people off enough I suppose, doesn't make it right, but are you gonna tell me you guys don't have stupid hateful people who call themselves republicans? I love the selective memory of you guys, you can't get your big tent in order, but you still have the balls to tell us WE are messed up, if I remember my Dante correct, hypocrites have a special place in Hell.”
--that one was in response to well, YOU, and your changing of the subject when you asserted that the democrats were all bad people because we are somehow affiliated with anarchists and rabble-rousers.
How about we take a look at all the posts where you followed me into the breach and wanted to rebut my facts that Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Der Leader are all culpable and responsible to the world for their greedy and illegal actions, such as providing aid and comfort to known madmen and mass-murderer for our own economic and political interests, morals be-damned.
1. “Third Eye - what a bunch or crap (as usual).
Name one weapons system or weapon type provided to Sadaam's Iraq by the United States? His tanks? Russian designs from eastern block countries. Ditto for his artillary, airplanes, and most small arms. His trucks - some of the same but also french and German. His Radars and SAM's? Russian. He made the chemical weapons himself.
So just what did "ZRummy" and Cheney supply him with? Romulan disruptors and Federation Phasers?”
Or
2. “Well taht is a lot different than weapons isn't it?
You KNOW we gave him intelligence? The Iranians and the Iraqi's fought like idiots. They'd line up across from each other and charge straight ahead. What excatly do you think we gave him.
And, precursors? Give us a list. Were they dual use or single use. Are you saying that the government supplied Sadaam with required materials to develop chmical weapons? Or, did Sadaam buy commercial items that may, or may not have been used that way. And since they were not on a "forbidden" list we couldn't really stop it?”
Or
3. “TEO - but, this was in '84 and '85 as you say. Not Rumsfeld and Cheney. It was before the war. And before his genocide attacks. And well - did we sell them to him?
And as YOU say the Germans sold him the chemical and biological weapons materials. And, we protested. WE PROTESTED. What would you have us do, declare war on Germany?
How's that for actually reading your own post stupid buddy boy? Maybe instead of just pasteing this crap in, you could actually read it.
Reagan wanted to allow a European arms supplier to sell a number of helicopters classified as civilian use to Iraq. They have a pretty big oil industry there you know. Helicopters are common. Could they have been used for military uses? Yes. Bicycles can and have been used for military uses. Were these helicopters used by Sadaams military? No.
Germany sells stuff to Iraq we know is bad. As you say, we protes dozens of times. The greedy Europeans don't care. Byr - WE DIDN'T sell them this crap. Get it? Read your own post.
Idiot”
--I love it when you call me names, makes me all hot and bothered.
Or
4. Germany was sending that crap. For crying out loud read your own post. Germany isn't a U.S. state is it? Did I miss something?
And, we sell stuff to peole all over the world all the time. If I remember correctly, this was just after Iran illegally captured our embassy and kept our people hostage for a year. So, OK that was under Carter - but they were only released the day Reagan was sworn in. We had a different view of the area back then. You guys make it seem like we were propping him up with massive aid. Wrong - we sold him (through European arms dealers) a tiny amount of material that could have been used for military purposes. But the helicpters were not used by the military. So, maybe, coulda, shoulda, they weren't.
But - well I guess back to the original subject. It's OK to advocate killing Republicans because 22 years ago we were willing to sell civilian helicopters to Iraq. And, we didn't nuke Germany for selling them bio material. And, we didn't nuke the Soviets for selling them tanks, airplanes and actual military helicopters. You pip.”
Or—I love this one, where he COMPLETELY changes the subject to sounething involving his imaginary right to bear arms under the 2nd amendment, sans his participation in a non-existant militia
A. “When will you have us sew the elephants on our chest so you can round us up easier? The New Orleans Police already showed us how you'll ignore the Constitution and confiscate our guns. Was that a slip? Early use of your national plan?”
I can go on and on, but im sure you wont even get this far, now explain (using facts and quotes) where I didn’t rebut all your facts and present statements backed up by easily fact cheked sources and history…didn’t think you could.
Anything else you wanna completely fabricate and lie about, Buck-o?

Axis - I target shoot with my semi-auto AR-15. My semi-auto AK (some Romanian thing) is a piece of crap. But, there is a prominent story out of New Orleans after Katrina where a man protected himself and his house and wife with a semi-auto AK. He didn't have to shoot. Seeing it scared away ten would be robbers. Isn't that a legitimate use?

And both of you. You are so wrong I love it. You CAN own RPG's, Machine Guns, Grenades, and even flamethrowers under current law. You just have to understand and abide by some pretty strict rules. Now again personally, I don't have use for rocket launchers, grenades, or flamethrowers - but I'd love to own a Tommy Gun. A few friends have let me shoot theirs and it's a blast.

Your continued attacks on guns with nothing but baseless propaganda as your source of information is great. The assault weapons ban during the Clinton years was crazy – no flash suppressor? It did nothing. Criminals prefer small, cheap, and hard to trace semi-automatic pistols know as throw-aways. I'm telling you - this loses the Democrats votes. The right to bear arms is in the Bill of Rights - what other rights in the first ten do you think are not individual rights? Which others should be restricted? Look around - this is a losing subject for you. But thanks for letting me know that the current liberal silence on the subject is a sham. I suspected as much.

And TEO - The abortion question again? If you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a fetus is not alive then destroy it. I've never seen anyone that could make that proof. I don't buy the religious arguments against abortion - but I think you need to be able to prove that the baby is not a living human before you kill.

And - yes I read your rambling post and you did not refute a single claim or counter claim I made. We did not sell weapons to Iraq. We did not sell chemical weapon precursors to Iraq. We did give them some intelligence during their war with Iran ( I guess we considered them the less of two evils - like Stalin was to Hitler).

My point about the firearms, the elephants and all is this: This blog string deals with a Democratic politician joking and apparently advocating the murder of George Bush in a public forum. (Have you, in fact agreed that that was bad?) I note also the large amount of violent acts against Republicans by Democrats last election. And, I note the illegal confiscation (whatever you believe - the people and the courts agree with ME) by a Democratic government during a crisis. No martial law was declared. Most of the Police were gone and people needed (indeed were using) these arms to defend themselves. The point? I see a pattern of violence by Democrats. I see a refusal to apologize, or even to acknowledge that violence against Republicans is bad. Neither you nor Axis has stated that you think that these attacks and the subject line statement were bad. Well, backhanded you did by saying we should clean up our act. Kind of like telling a rape victim to wear a longer skirt next time.

Get it? To me it's all related. I didn't bring up Iraq - I was responding to YOU. I don't care about Cuba - and never brought it up. I'm concerned about a Democratic CULTURE OF VIOLENCE that is spread through an unceasing campaign of denigration and hatred. I've seen this hatred erupt in many violent acts against Republicans - and this latest statement is just indicative of your arrogance and hatred. You shot into our offices. You firebomb our offices. You destroy our vehicles. You scream us off the stage at Universities and other public forums. And, you have Democratic prosecutors spending years trying to find something – anything to arrest certain targeted Republicans for.

If you will not renounce violence against us. Then excuse us if we think, just maybe we shouldn't give up our guns. Get it?

Axis? Still there? The RCMP didn't arrest you Toronto today did they?

Kahn,

I think they did?

Still here to get your goats, sorry to disappoint.

I target shoot with my semi-auto AR-15. My semi-auto AK (some Romanian thing) is a piece of crap. But, there is a prominent story out of New Orleans after Katrina where a man protected himself and his house and wife with a semi-auto AK. He didn't have to shoot. Seeing it scared away ten would be robbers. Isn't that a legitimate use?

-- Not really. Target practive is not a valid reason why not to restrict such weapons. You could say the same with a joe six pack taking his RPG and using it for target practice too.

People don't need assault weapons or fully auto rifles to protect themselves. Such things were not even a consideration back when the ammendment was implemented, and it was done for the purpose of not restricting armed state militias more than allowing joe civilians to go around packing.

You CAN own RPG's, Machine Guns, Grenades, and even flamethrowers under current law.

-- I never said you could not. I said, no legit use for such things in the civilian world. What are you going to use a flame thrower for legally? Barbequing your steaks in the back yard? How about an RPG? Gonna take you old RPG and use it to remove stumps from your backyard? Gernades? Lots of legitimate purposes for those aren't there? Same with machine guns.

Allowing those are just silly and it actually weakens your right to bear arms like hand guns and long guns. Such weapons is the main reason many states disallow concealed weapons.

Next you will have the arguement that it also allows you to collect dirty bombs or nuclear devices or cruise missles. Wingnuts would surely argue for the right to carry cruise missles on your camping trips in case the terrorists come.

All things must be limited to within reason and safety of society.

And it will. Bush caved and dropped the assault rifle ban, but it will be reimplemented.

Well there ya go Axis - thanks. I give examples of what I consider to be legitimate uses. I was a Marine. I like shooting my AR-15 to keep my skills up. I point out how a semi-auto AK was used to defend a persons home from TEN would be robbers. A REAL WORLD example.

Again - can you list one legally owned machine gun, one .50 caliber rifle, or even a flamethrower being used in a crime? Ever?

But, with no facts to back you up. With a few shaky and misleading statistics - you decide that I am wrong and assert that you have a right to assert your will on me.

And I guess that's the point. I believe in liberty and freedom. While you apparently believe in control. You have an opinion. In your arrogance, you refuse to look at objective facts. What is your justification for seizing these weapons if in the decades they have existed NONE has been used to commit a crime? Why not make alcohol illegal again? Or outlaw motor vehicles. Either of THOSE things would definitely save lives and prevent crimes. That is OK - the U.S. Constitution was written to protect me from “well intentioned” buffoons like you.

By the way, I took special note that you still refuse to renounce violence against Republicans. That is what this string was about by the way. Instead - you've argued that I should be forced to give up a right that I can use to protect my family from criminals and hate filled ideologues like you. You denigrate us, dehumanize us, you burn and ransack our offices and think its OK to kill us.

Good luck - I'm a pretty fair shot. And, I'm not giving up my guns so long as assholes like you are around.

Well there ya go Axis - thanks. I give examples of what I consider to be legitimate uses. I was a Marine. I like shooting my AR-15 to keep my skills up. I point out how a semi-auto AK was used to defend a persons home from TEN would be robbers. A REAL WORLD example.

Again - can you list one legally owned machine gun, one .50 caliber rifle, or even a flamethrower being used in a crime? Ever?

But, with no facts to back you up. With a few shaky and misleading statistics - you decide that I am wrong and assert that you have a right to assert your will on me.

And I guess that's the point. I believe in liberty and freedom. While you apparently believe in control. You have an opinion. In your arrogance, you refuse to look at objective facts. What is your justification for seizing these weapons if in the decades they have existed NONE has been used to commit a crime? Why not make alcohol illegal again? Or outlaw motor vehicles. Either of THOSE things would definitely save lives and prevent crimes. That is OK - the U.S. Constitution was written to protect me from “well intentioned” buffoons like you.

By the way, I took special note that you still refuse to renounce violence against Republicans. That is what this string was about by the way. Instead - you've argued that I should be forced to give up a right that I can use to protect my family from criminals and hate filled ideologues like you. You denigrate us, dehumanize us, you burn and ransack our offices and think its OK to kill us.

Good luck - I'm a pretty fair shot. And, I'm not giving up my guns so long as assholes like you are around.

Well there ya go Axis - thanks. I give examples of what I consider to be legitimate uses. I was a Marine. I like shooting my AR-15 to keep my skills up. I point out how a semi-auto AK was used to defend a persons home from TEN would be robbers. A REAL WORLD example.

-- ok, so restrict them then. Since there is a legit use for target practice, but thats it, restrict their sales and don't allow them to be sold over the counter to any idiot who turns around and sells them illegallyout of the back of his van

No legit uses you can come up with for RPG's, flamethrowers, gernades though, so why allow them?

Control means exactly that. Controlling weapons with little legit use that are more often used in criminal acts. Thats not a bad thing and neither is making guns less available as it would reduce gun crimes. Doesnt mean banning them, just making sure that those with them are responsible and not criminals

Kahn,

You have so obviously bought into your own infallability, thats it's not even worth me wasting time to prove you wrong, anyone who wants to read the string earlier on this post can, and if they have questions about my facts I have presented then they can get a hold of me, and im sure if they want your side of the story, they can contact you.

I actually have taken responsibility for some stupid comment from a democrat, and im not even a dem.

Now, how is you can advocate the protection of a collection of cells inside a woman's body, but suport the "collateral damage" of innocent men, women, and children by our hands? What a hypocrite!

Fetus' may not have physical capabilities to feel pain until 25 weeks, but the kids who have their limbs blown off, and their entire familes blown-up by a precision strike can. How about a little compassionate conservatism for those folks, or is "I'm sorry, sucks to be you" all you can muster these days?

Definition of Third Eye Open:

"HITLER JUNIOR THE II/REIGN OF TERROR.

You still refuse to renounce violence against Republicans.

Abortion, gun control Iraq, whatever are smoke screens and distraction. Renounce violence against Republicans!

Kahn Quote,

You still refuse to renounce violence against Republicans.
-----------------------------------------------

It's Ok Kahn I know this guy Third Eye, He's de-ranged, he is a really sick person, he's been caught and convicted for drug charges.

So really the best thing to do is ignore his slanders, He has no reasoning at all, None whatsoever.

He will argue with you until he falls over.

So just take some advice and let him mouth-off somewhere else.

jeremiah

Thanks Jerimiah. But honestly, does he sound any different than Howard Dean?

Kahn,

I RENOUNCE VIOLENCE AGAINST ANYONE, INCLUDING REPUBLICANS.

Now, do you feel better?

Will you renounce violence against Iraqis, whether it is intentional or collateral?

Kahn Question Quote--

Thanks Jerimiah. But honestly, does he sound any different than Howard Dean?
_________________________________________________

Yeah Kahn, Third is on the same line as Dean, With all the foaming at the mouth "ta boot".

Jerry,

Will YOU renounce violence against Iraqis, whether intentional or collateral.

Your loving lord,

I AM

I'll take care of third Kahn, you just sit back buddy.
_______________________________________________

Third Quote"

Jerry"

Will YOU renounce violence against Iraqis, whether intentional or collateral.
_______________________________________________

NO, We can't afford to do either one, because wev'e got to protect (lowly scums like you) in prison GOT IT! NOW GET OUT OF MY FACE LEE!!!

Kahn,

If you would like to read more about Third Eye, Please refer to "The cowardly liberal left" thread. You'll see what I'm talking about!!

Jerry,

What a christian heart you have, advocating the death of innocent civilians. No Christmas for you this year young man!

Your vengeful lord,

I AM

Mr. Lee,

Oh My, NO CHRISTMAS....?.....?.....NO CHRISTMAS...

I was only being nice and looking out for you..

BoooooooooooHoooooooooooooooooNo preeeeeseeeeents.....

Oh well,

Mr.Lee, If it would happen to go your way buddy..

.......................

All I can say is......... HEADS UP GERONIMO......

You have a nice christmas, PAL.

Jerry,

And a merry Kwanza to you too!

Vengefully yours,

I AM

Christmas continued.............

And I hope your "CELL" protects you from those innocent(IRAQITERRORISTS) civilian's that you said were quote"innocent"unquote and later proven "GUILTY" who had their crosshairs on your backyard before (9\11)..............

HUH, someone must be lookin out for you Lee "eh I do say" must be your quote "der leader"...........

Pretty dog gone christian eh...........

something to think about there mr.jail bird lee.

Everybody say AMEN.

Jerry,

Christians advocate taking slaves...

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Mr.Lee Or third head,

Slavery was and has now for "MANY YEARS" now been "ABOLISHED FOREVERMORE" You "FOOL".........

"However, There is a penalty for hideous crime, take for instance if you were trying to protect your wife and kids from a serial killer would you not try to protect them from such "IMMENENT DANGER".

Ok, So you don't get the point?

Try this then?

Go to Iraq, become a citizen ok, follow me?

After about a year, get married to an irazi woman,

still there? Keep in mind (SERIALS*SERIALS) is always as I said "IMMENENT" in Iraq, It's like the Hatfeilds and MCoys, Ok you've got this far keep going'''

Raise you a family.

Now here is the TEST!

Then are you going to protect your family or not,after knowing the script mind of an IRAX felon?

Here's the Key", Would you care enough for your Wife and children and have compassion enough to let a U.S. Soldier come and protect you? would you Honestly? tell the truth hard head!!!

When God allowed the black death, He told his people to sprinkle blood on the doors of the righteous and those who did not obey received their penalty for disobedience.

These so called "SLAVES" your talking about Lee is "GARBAGE".

See how innocent they are when you turn them loose, Just go over there and tell a U.S. Soldier you want him to turn the captive's free, You would See who's "evil",and You would see what "evil" means "FOOL".

You see Lee, DON'T YOU SEE THE IGNORANCE IN YOU IDEOLOGICAL STUPIDITY!!!!!!!!

I can see it now THE BIG HEADLINES"

"W-O-R-L-D------- W-A-R ---------T-H-R-E-E"

The big talk on capitol hill AND FOX:

THE PEACE TALKER LEE SAID TURN THE CAPTIVES FREE.
_________________________________________________

But just remember one thing Lee:

The reason you are at where you are now is because, YOU FAILED TO OBEY!

Let's all pray for Lee here or Third, because he really needs it!!!!!!!!

Best,
Jeremiah

Jeremiah, your posts are becoming more and more difficult to read and comprehend.

Its time for you to roll up a BIG reefer and go get your smoke on and then come back and post while you are stoned and actually make a lick of sense.

AXIS,

THAT'S BECAUSE YOUR'E TO DUMB TO READ IT, SON!!!!

There you go Jeremiah, you took my advice and got your smoke on and now you are capable for a short time to write comprehensible paragraphs.

Does your brother know you smoking that Mari-Juana boy? I hope you share with him

Axis has still not renounced violence against Republicans. The reason for this particular blog string.

Jerry,

I think you are seriously "touched". I really wish I could follow that rant (i really dont know what to call it, since its about the most random sentence ive seen in a long time). If you want to repost it, and make coherant statements, ill be happy to talk with you, but when you type with your hands covered in paste, these are the things that will happen.

It's all about you!

I AM

Lee,

Make fun of me all you want!!

I am aware that you are in prison!!

I just hope they keep you there!!

Can't afford to have any more kooks and on the streets, in this fine land of America!

So you take care now, Don't let the "CELL" bugs bite!! Haaaaaaaa!!