Mark

The total ignorance of your rant is astonishing.

Are you not aware that right now, today, the folks in power are right-wing conservative christians? Are you not aware that right now, today, those folks have put you in deep s---?
It is the policies of the Bush administration, not the left-wing liberals, which have brought you to this sorry state.

Get a clue.

Wow, I am impressed at your incredible insight.

All that is right with the world is a conservative ideal, all that is bad and evil...a liberal ideal.

I am beginning to agree with the scientific studies done that show that conservatism is actually a psychological condition, like the one from Berkley here. Oddly enough, after that, a conservative think tank also did a study and came up with very similar results.

Maybe there will be one day a drug that will cure this strange condition which ails america.

Never fear Mark, I was reading an interesting article the other day regarding a movement underway, a Christian left movement that will becoming more and more involved in elections as a counter to you religious right.

--------------------

Religion takes a 'left' turn

Group offers counter voice to conservatives

By Bill Theobald
Gannett News Service

WASHINGTON — In the political lexicon of the past few decades, when someone says "religion" the words "right wing" are almost sure to follow.

Now, a diverse group of self-avowed "left-wing" religious and spiritual leaders is building a potentially potent political movement - both to provide a counterbalance to the influence of conservative Christian groups and to reframe the debate over values to include health care, poverty and the environment.

A fledgling effort, there is already evidence from the 2004 election that the religious left could be a force in the fall election and beyond.

"I think there is a real possibility for these groups to coalesce into a politically significant bloc of voters," said John C. Green, political science professor at the University of Akron. "But it might take a while."

What has grabbed the attention of Green and other political observers is the Network of Spiritual Progressives, a loose coalition of liberal Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Unitarians, Muslims, Buddhists and others.

It was founded by Vietnam anti-war activist turned Rabbi Michael Lerner, out of the Tikkun Community, an interfaith organization created in 2002.

"This is not traditional left politics," Lerner said last week at a conference that drew 1,000 people to the nation's capital. "We are critiquing the liberal culture because liberal culture is often hostile to people of faith."

The eight planks of the group's "Spiritual Covenant with America" (modeled on former Republican House Speaker Newt Gingrich's Contract with America) include harsh critiques of America's materialistic, sexualized culture.

They call for personal responsibility and avoiding "First Amendment fundamentalism that attempts to keep all spiritual values out of the public sphere."

At the same time, the covenant sounds familiar liberal themes of a national health care system, corporate responsibility and environmentalism.

"I'm here because the religious right does not speak for us all," said the Rev. Barbara Silversmith, 61, a chaplain at Capital Hospice in Beltsville, Md. "I think we are in the most dangerous time politically and spiritually we have ever been."

Green, senior fellow in religion and American Politics for the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, said the 2004 election marked "the wakeup call" for religious progressives.

That call won't get answered, said Tony Perkins, president of the conservative Family Research Council.

Perkins said this left-wing coalition will not work because its members are not unified around a single set of religious beliefs. They are united only in their opposition to the religious right, he said.

But Green's research, based on a national survey of voters, found the religious left was actually a major factor in the 2004 election. It made up 14 percent of voters, compared with 15 percent identified as religious right. And 69 percent of the religious left voted, up from 51 percent in 2000.

In this fall's election, Lerner said the group is targeting Ohio, a pivotal state in 2004. Green believes progressives could have an impact in some of his home state's races because they will be so close.

Whether this influence grows, Green said, depends on how well the Network of Spiritual Progressives and other groups establish the grass-roots communication and get-out-the vote systems that have worked so well for conservative Christians.

"That's a really big question. It did take the religious right some time to figure that out," Lerner said.

THE SPIRITUAL COVENANT WITH AMERICA

The Spiritual Covenant with America calls on people to:

1. Create a society that promotes loving and caring relationships and families. Challenge materialism and selfishness.

2. Take personal responsibility for ethical behavior by reviving the sacred element in sexuality, shaping a purpose-driven life and building an inner spiritual life.

3. Build social responsibility into the business world by requiring corporations to get a new charter every 10 years and prove they have been socially responsible.

4. Reshape the education system to teach the values of love, caring, generosity, intellectual curiosity, tolerance, gratitude, awe and wonder.

5. Create a national health care plan and broaden the public's understanding of health care.

6. Be stewards of the environment by championing voluntary simplicity and ethical consumption.

7. Build a safer world and promote a rational approach to immigration through a strategy of nonviolence and generosity.

8. Seek the separation of church, state and science. But don't attempt to keep all spiritual values out of the public sphere.

Source: The Network of Spiritual Progressives

"I'll call this "Downing Street Memo Syndrome" - the act of a liberal/left person who will read into something what he wishes to find there."

From the Downing Street memo:

"Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."

Not much to read into that!

As for your whole liberal demonization. Not worth discussing.

BUT, let me repast what you wrote:

"I'll call this "Downing Street Memo Syndrome" - the act of a liberal/left person who will read into something what he wishes to find there."

Now, this is from your USA Today thread:

"At any rate, its a buried story - even part of the welcoming want a wall; so, the real story is that there is a consensus for wall building in the United States."

Uh, who's reading into something what he wishes.

When such blatent hypocrisy and stupidity is shown within 24 hours, I find it hard that anyone takes the writer of such idiocy seriously... except himself, obviously.

Think about where we are today - we're fighting a coupe-score thousand Islamo-fascist fanatics; we weren't fighting them 30 years ago. Did they just spring up out of nowhere? Hardly - they sprung up and proclaimed their hellish goals and started to kill people in large numbers - and we failed to confront it.

-- Absolutely, YOU (Conservatives) failed to confront it. Regan failed to confront it. Bush Sr failed to confront it. Bush Jr. failed to confront it until they launched the worst terrorist attack on US soil. I am glad to see you finally admitting to your cowardice and failure.

and then as soon as we started to do something out it, our liberal/left friends started to get nervous and immediately sought ways to get themselves off the hook for anything which might go wrong, or even so much as prove difficult

-- Bad or faulty memory too huh? Seems you have caught that conservative bad memory syndrome that Rove and Libby both have, likely from when you met Karl Rove.

We liberals had no problems with going into Afganistan, you know the country that actually attacked america? Or going after Al Quada, or Bin Laden, remember the guy that actually atttacked you?

We only had a problem when you chose to cut and run from there and go into Iraq intead, based on LIES and fabricated intelligence, as Iraq was not a credible threat, which was why the UN wasn't up in arms, and also because they did not attack america and had no terrorists there until after you screwed up the invasion.

But no worries, we liberals have long and good memories. You forgetful conservatives may have forgotten all about your enemy and the war on terror, but we haven't. The difference is that we intend to do it right and actually listen to the top generals and military strategists instead of ignoring them and following a military-wannbe instead called Donny Rumsfeld.

Mark, all your diatribes are only serving 2 purposes. #1, you are rah, rah, rahing your base with this BS, which would have gone to the polls anyway, and #2, you are pushing away all the moderate and traditional republicans who look at these factless diatribes you spew and think "these guys are nuts!" and its these people that will stay home in Novemeber and guarantee you a crushing defeat in the mid-terms.

Great job! Keep it up please. Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot everyday, a new scandal and more bad news which will continue all the way into Novemeber. Then you seal you fate by pushing away the majority of republicans that you need to get anywhere.

Mark: "Think about where we are today - we're fighting a coupe-score thousand Islamo-fascist fanatics; we weren't fighting them 30 years ago."

Let's see, 30-years before 9/11 would be 1971, so it all started with Nixon?

Mark, I'm sure you are well aware that I completely disagree with you on what we call "left" and "right", and since you seem to think my comment in teh holland post wasn't about the real issue I will comment on 2 points here a) several people who on the left have spent their life fighting for what they believe in and b) that the last article was not started by the left.

Lets start with those on the left who have spent their lives fighting for what they believe in.
Richard Stallman: Seen the evils of non free software and decided he will create enough free software that he and everyone can use to replace all non free software, he has lived off next to nothing, never backed down from his beliefs once, stand up to corporate giants such as microsoft.

Pierre Georges: A communist that fought for the french resistance during WWII, shot and killed by the germans.

Einstein: Opposed the Nazi party in everyway, risked not coming to the safety of America by demanding he not be investigated for the horrible crime of communism (yes, its illegal to be communist in america, unless you can prove to me that law was repeled). He also spent alot of time helping the jewish people and stating his socialist views.

Now as for that previous article, yes, the left believes you are free to do what you want as long as you do not infringe on other peoples freedoms. This means if you rape someone you are hurting them and deserve to be punished, ie the left believes people who rape or has sexual relations with a minor are BAD people. Sure the left does allow alot of room for personal freedoms, but to say they are to blame for sexual crimes is like saying we can blame christians and jews for religous wars since they carried out several.

Wow, You totally got your panties up in a bunch over this didn't you?

Your truth doesn't jive with history man, lets take a look ,shall we? Islamofacism, we can trace its nacent roots to Saudis, through the history of the tribes there, a militant, and very primitive version of islam, called Wahabism was being taught through the state sponsored schools, now, at this time we see a flourishing culture in Iran, and Iraq and not too far removed from the golden age of Afghanistan, all were western leaning centers of thought and art, and more importantly, tempered religiously-backed morals. So back to my point, when we found out that these crazy guys, noone really cared about, had one of the world's largest reserves of oil (thats texas tea for all ya'll in Flor-Ga-Bama)we couldnt trip over our own tongue fast enough trying to get our sticky little fingers all over it (Read: JACOR and McNamera; World Bank). The architects of this little money laundering scheme were all your buddies Bush Sr. Halliburton, Bechtel, MAIN (now out of business) etc. So basically WE financed radical Islam for our own interests, we overthrew the Shah because he wouldn't play our game of hide the sausage in the middle-east's bum, then to boot we went and provided aid and comfort to the Taliban, an agry little wahabi-splinter group, now the reasons for this are many and varied, but mainly because it served two american interests, early on we wanted to put a crimp in the USSR, and Osama and his buddies actually did a pretty good job with american weapons and training, and in later days, right before our invasion, post 9/11, we were intent on building a pipeline to circumvent Russian control of caspian sea revenues...the Taliban ended up refusing the deal, but we invaded anyways, and Karzai did what we wanted anyways, so no big whoop, right?

So, in conclusion, we are responsible for the uptick of Islamic radicalism, we ignored these whackos, all the while funding them when we needed them, and then leave them to torture their own people, until they bloodied our nose, now we are all concerned about them...get real man your facts are laughable, your assertations lack historical context, and the next time you think that a few pedophiles in Europe somehow speak for an entire movement of people in the United States, DON'T! And as I said yesterday, own up to your own follies before you go throwing stones at others

I welcome a society where people are so unafraid that the will openly declare what they think. You would think that even Conservatives would be more comfortable in a setting where all philosophies would be openly discussed and "right and wrong" could be assigned by the majority and at the same time the "rights" of the minority would be protected. Some people believe that war is the answer to problems, they are wrong, but they have a right to their position as long as they harm no one. Child molesters have a right to believe whatever they like, but society long ago decided that children should be protected because they are not skilled enough to make "good" decisions for themselves. Peace

Mark, I thought you said that you were a big fan of history...

First of all, the civil rights movement in the 1950's culminated with Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas (1954). The liberal justices actually had to convince the Conservative ones to vote in favor of Brown in order to make it a unanimous decision.

Secondly, all of the civil rights legislation was penned by and passed by liberals and Democrats.

Thirdly, all of the "civil rights" court cases were decided by the Warren Court, which was the epitome of what you would call "judicial activism." Keep in mind, this court also decided Griswold v. Connecticut (1965), which established the supposedly infamous marital right to privacy and also served as the basis for Roe v. Wade.

Not to mention: I am pretty sure that most of the black and white activists voted blue after the 1950's, thus is the stereotype, afterall.

Now, we know what liberals were doing at the time, so what about Conservatives?

George Wallace, the former Governor of Alabama, was a racist, segregationist, and a Republican. He actually used the race issue to divide southern whites and foment a populist conservative movement. He also used backlash against supposed liberal courts' (I guess you would call them Christian conservative?) supposed intrusion in to issues that he thought should have been controlled locally (a rallying call for segregationists, mind you).

A large factor in the rise of modern conservatism was dismay at a growing number of "raical" blacks wanting equal rights, and the fact that the courts were supposedly intruding in their local lives by ending segregation.

Meanwhile, as the past century unfolded, our liberals and leftists refused to confront things like Nazism, Stalinism

Do you think that FDR was a liberal? Well, he got us in to World War II, and, subsequently, into our fight against Nazism. If you bring the fact that he waited until we were attacked to do something, here's a question for you: Why did Bush wait until we were attacked to start his War on Terrorism? Clearly, a conservative like Bush would have the balls to go after a threat before they attacked us.

Now, about Stalinism...

I seem to remember Eisenhower not doing much of anything in the Cold War except almost make it a very hot one (or very cold, if you count the nuclear winter) except for psuedo-ending the Korean War. I also seem to remember conservatives like Sen. Joe McCarthy being censured by congress for using Communism as a scare tactic.

Do you think that JFK was a liberal. Remember the Berlin Airlift? JFK defied Stalin's blockade of Berlin and really embarrassed the USSR.

Also, Vietnam was essentially started (active troops being stationed) by Kennedy (D), then it was continued by Johnson (D), and ended by Nixon (R). Wait a sec... that seems like the exact opposite of what you paint liberals to be! Liberals maintaining a war and a conservative ending it? That must be a bizarre world.

Maybe you just think that we don't know that much about history, but keep in mind the definitions of Liberal and Conservative...

Liberal:1.)Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.2.) Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

Conservative: Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.

So, would conservatives, being necessarily (by definition) opposed to change, have favored Civil Rights legislation?

Again, maybe you think that we don't know much about history, but you shouldn't skew it as much as you did.

Mark, I thought you said that you were a big fan of history...

Well, his favorite quip is, "You can't read as much history as I have and not be a conservative." Which I guess is supposed to mean that he's read a lot of history and that supports his radical-right urges. Of course, all those nonconservative history scholars and professors--who have most likely read a good deal more history than Noonan and done so more diligently--would be surprised to hear that they're conservative. So that shoots down Noonan's little "read a lot of history, and you'll be conservative" ploy.

But upon further reading, Noonan's statement seems to imply that he's only read just enough history to support his radical-right urges--which is to say, not a whole lot. After all, this is a guy convinced that Nazis are leftists. How much stock can one really place in the historical knowledge of a person who seriously forwards this bizarre concept?

And then we have Noonan getting all huffy that people disproved his sad little notion that child molestation is "a liberal/left thing" while claiming that in doing so, they didn't "address the issue." So somehow, pointing out how wrong he is on an issue fails to qualify as addressing the issue.

And this guy wants to become a full-time public affairs writer. Besides needing a phenomenal editor, he needs to learn some rudimentary things about history and logic.

Georgia --

The Berlin airlift was 1948-49, under Truman.

Mark,

Give em hell buddy.

I can always tell how close you are to the truth by the "responses" posted by the moonbats. When the "responses" are tediously lengthy, screeching and consist of the same old liberal regurgitation, I know who are probably hitting the nail right on the head.

BTW Canadian Observer, I am a also Canadian (that thankfully lives in the USA now) and you are seriously embarassing. Here's a hint, nobody gives a rat's ass about what you think. We right thinking conservatives certainly don't. The moonbats may say they do, but unless you can help them get into power and advance their sick agenda, they could give a shit. Just ask Lieberman.

So give it a rest and stick to posting your inane remarks on globeandmail.com. Seriously, screw off.

BTW Canadian Observer, I am a also Canadian (that thankfully lives in the USA now) and you are seriously embarassing. Here's a hint, nobody gives a rat's ass about what you think. We right thinking conservatives certainly don't. The moonbats may say they do, but unless you can help them get into power and advance their sick agenda, they could give a shit. Just ask Lieberman.

So give it a rest and stick to posting your inane remarks on globeandmail.com. Seriously, screw off.

-- Hmmm. Sure doesn't sound to me like you don't give a rats ass. Seems you care a great deal and are very upset that some liberals are spoiling your conservative "me too" mind picnic.

Conservatives FEAR liberals, thats what it all comes down to. This is because the root of conservatism is a psychological condition, like sociopathy for instance. Check out the study on conservatism here to find out why you are, the way you are.

Since you are a canadian, you are not even a real conservative, more of a conservative wannabe looking to fit in somewhere, anywhere. You must have been from Quebec, thats the only place I am aware of where clusters of people such as yourself reside. Vive la Qeubec eh?

GOP4ME,
welcome to the party...so let me ask you something, when did history become a liberal "thing"? You show how ignorant you are by just parroting someone else's opinion, do you have any of your own, if so i'd love to hear them.

Liberals have to explain things in detail, since conservatives believe the world exists in stark black and white contrasts, thats why FOX and Rush appeal to you guys, they give you 30 second soundbites that allow you to make up any reality you like, ignoring incovenient things like "history" or "facts". So if you think our little history lesson is boring and doesn't quite jive with the Emperor's version, then so be it, im sure you will enjoy the next 30 or 50 years before conservatives are taken seriously in national discourse, ciao!

Shhhh, GOP.
Sit back and enjoy the show; they're proving Mark's point all by themselves.

Rathaven,

can you condense that point for me again, was it the one where Liberals and progressives are somehow to blame for nutty Dutch pedophiles?

or the one where we have logic and history on our side in smacking down every talking point you guys can milk off Rove and Mehlman?

Don't forget that in conservative christian KS it is legal to marry a 10 year old girl.

Mark, the simple fact of the matter is this.

1) You are PO'd because some Liberals may have treated you badly in life, so now you have a vendetta against anything Liberal.

2) All Liberals are not the same. Therefore whatever SOME people may have done to you does not speak for the masses.

3) You refuse to see that Conservatives can do any wrong, so you falsly attribute anything bad squarely on the shoulders of Liberals, ignoring the corruption of Conservatives that clearly exists.

4) You apparently have no respect for the BILLIONS of people around the world with other belief systems than Catholic Christianity and the TRILLIONS more throughout history that have had different beliefs. Christianity is only less than 2000 years old, Mark. You also have contempt for your fellow Christians, if they dare to believe in even one Liberal idea.

5) You seem to believe that anyone who thinks Liberal has absolutely no moral value system. That is ENTIRELY untrue. Some of the best and most moral people I know (they are more Christian than most Christians) are more Liberal-minded.

6) The ultimate result of this is that you arrogantly assume that you and only those who think like you know right from wrong. You blog on this site to try to prove such and brainwash others. And you probably get paid for it.

Mark, God himself has created people of different faiths and value systems to live on this planet. Who are YOU to argue with God? Maybe you think you ARE God. Maybe the radical Christianist right is using the name of Christianity to play God themselves. Sounds a little like radical Islam to me, folks.

You, Mark (unless you can prove yourself a different person, a less conceited and more compassionate person)and those like you are what give Christianity and Conservativism a bad name.
The people that arrogantly assume they are right because they are Right are destroying the fabric of this nation just as badly as any radical Left-winger is doing.

GIVE UP THE HATE, MARK!!!!

STOP ACTING LIEK A THREE-YEAR-OLD!!!

and polygamy thrives in conservative bastion, utah...

GOP

Sorry if you find me an embarrassment. My opinions are my own and in no way do I assume to speak for other Canadians, even those who no longer reside here.

If you are a Bush supporter, that is your right. If I am not, that also, is my right. We are, each and everyone, entitled to express our beliefs.

I should remind you that even though our current government is a conservative one and agrees to follow the Bush agenda, it is still a minority one and does not have unconditional power.

Hopefully, Harper, will govern with intelligence and forethought and keep the good name of Canada in focus when making major decisions that will affect our standing in the international community.

Hi Guys

Mark talks about somethings being right and somethings being wrong (right must always be encouraged, wrong always opposed). I would like to hear from guys who have a liberal point of view as to whats wrong and whats right, along with a reason.

Please start with this one: from previous discussions it’s obvious that you think pedophile behavior is wrong and should not be allowed. I want to know why you think it is wrong? What are your logical reasons for something being 'wrong' or 'right'? What do you base your decision on?

I won't attack anything you say in this thread - I may however ask more questions.

JJ,

this is an age old question, we can't ever get to the bottom of, but the mere fact that people discuss it still leads us to believe it must still be relevant.

What is good: Puppies and Rainbows are good, because they make us feel warm and happy...

What is bad: well terrorism is bad, but who gets to determine terrorism, i bet the people protecting their neighborhoods from tit-for-tat killings see themselves as freedomfighters, but we see them as terrorists, and I would imagine visa-versa.

On the point of the subject at hand, It is bad to hurt children, why?, well because they cannot defend themselves or are not expected to make decisions which could bring irreversable harm to themselves, this is why they don't vote, drink, and shouldn't be allowed to marry until some pre-determined age in which we can expect SOME semblance of rational decision making, based on facts and consequences.

so, back to the issue, is it right or wrong to allow slimy pedophiles to try and enter the political process...is it wrong to allow neo- Nazis or racists to enter the political areana, well thats the trade-off we make when we live in a free society, everyone can express their opinions, and if the society as a whole regards those opinions as 'bad', then we relegate those ideas and people to the background, shunned and scorned by society, we dont hunt them down, kill them, or hurt them, since it may not be too long before one of our own radical ideas is seen as blather, and relegathed to the philosophical graveyard.
The mere fact we have civil discussions and examine why and how we think the way we think allows for us to make educated decisions, not knee-jerk reactions where we call everyone we THINK is asociated with these folks all manner of names that arent true, we smile, laugh, and let them hang themselves with just enough rope.

Georgia,

Wallace was a Democrat.

Third,

No, it isn't the trade off for living in a free society - its the cowardly act of people who don't have any morality and are thus afraid to take a stand.

Someone who is a child molestor should be so deathly afraid of discovery that he'll do anything he can to prevent his terrible secret from coming out...just as it should be so socially unacceptable to be a communist, nazi, KKKer or what have you that no one would admit to being such in public.

Not to get into a pissing-match but Wallace was a Dixiecrat as was Strom Thurmond.

They were very conservative and christian. They were democrats because Lincoln was a republican

Mark,

there goes your flawed logic again, what youre talking about is called a theocracy, the morals of one group being held as standard for an entire nation of people. Is it better if racists and pedophiles stay in their own yards touching themselves to gary-coleman porn, sure, what a perfect world, but it doesnt happen that way, and the supreme court has said so on many different occasions. When you start limiting the free speech of one group, how long before the government is in your pews telling you that your speech is hate speech, or that your book is hateful, and needs to be banned, and you "christians" need to be ashamed of yourself, go hide, NOW!"
If you value the fact we live in a free society that should allow us to think and say what we believe, as long as we arent infringing upon the rights of others, then you have to admit, your logic, while not bad, is flawed

No, it isn't the trade off for living in a free society - its the cowardly act of people who don't have any morality and are thus afraid to take a stand.

-- Mark, you still have not answered my question. Since pedophilia/adultry/immoral lifestyles are in your opinion liberal lifestyles, then why do so many conservatives choose to adopt this kind of lifestyle?

Many pedophiles are conservatives, including priests. Many commit adultry, some even bestiality. Many live immoral lifestyles as well.

Why Mark? Its your theory, why are you afraid to put it to the test?

Mark,

Was that a ruft draft? When will you post the final, edited draft.

Mark, I'm sure you are well aware that I completely disagree with you on what we call "left" and "right", and since you seem to think my comment in teh holland post wasn't about the real issue I will comment on 2 points here a) several people who on the left have spent their life fighting for what they believe in and b) that the last article was not started by the left.

Lets start with those on the left who have spent their lives fighting for what they believe in.
Richard Stallman: Seen the evils of non free software and decided he will create enough free software that he and everyone can use to replace all non free software, he has lived off next to nothing, never backed down from his beliefs once, stand up to corporate giants such as microsoft.

Pierre Georges: A communist that fought for the french resistance during WWII, shot and killed by the germans.

Einstein: Opposed the Nazi party in everyway, risked not coming to the safety of America by demanding he not be investigated for the horrible crime of communism (yes, its illegal to be communist in america, unless you can prove to me that law was repeled). He also spent alot of time helping the jewish people and stating his socialist views.

Now as for that previous article, yes, the left believes you are free to do what you want as long as you do not infringe on other peoples freedoms. This means if you rape someone you are hurting them and deserve to be punished, ie the left believes people who rape or has sexual relations with a minor are BAD people. Sure the left does allow alot of room for personal freedoms, but to say they are to blame for sexual crimes is like saying we can blame christians and jews for religous wars since they carried out several.

Mark,

Keep up the good work buddy, Your'e doing a great job!!

Mark,You see how the fascist party storm in, well, just goes to show you how much "GOOD" there is in the world, You see they feel ashamed of their actions, by voting for "EVIL" and they know it, and they "FAIL" to realise who is in control, these people along with the queers that have contradicted you on your statement are the very one's who are going to usher in the second coming of christ, because he has allowed these people to go on with their trash to the extent that America has went to the dogs, I think it is about time to put a halt to these slanderous slimeballs!!!

Mark, KEEP YOUR HEAD HELD HIGH BUDDY, you are doing a WONDERFUL JOB!!!!!!!!!

Jeremiah

You do know, don't you, that a fascist is in no way, shape or form, a liberal.

Also, I think there might be a problem with your post as it seems disjointed and appears to break with reality.

Jeremiah,

It is likely you that will one day burn eternally. You have you face in the good book, spouting proverbs so much that you don't even notice that you are in the company of satan and serpents.

We on the left KNOW who we did not vote for, those serpents in the white house that advocate murder, killing, genocide, warmongering, torture and many more evils.

You are blind and in bed with satan and don't even know it.

Jeremiah's post is another example of why I hate the religious "Christian" right--always pointing the finger at someone when they don't succum to thier shallow ideology for being evil. I swear to God nutjob Christians like Jeremiah are really no better that the Islamic-Fascists in the Middle East.

Here is an example of what conservatives do behind closed doors. Looks pretty darn "liberal" to me:

Republican anti-abortion activist Neal Horsley admitted to having sex with a mule

-----------------

Bizarre Sex Habits of The Extreme Right-Wing
Reported by Ellen - May 06, 2005
http://www.newshounds.us/2005/05/06/bizarre_sex_habits_of_the_extreme_rightwing.php

Last night, anti-abortion extremist Neal Horsley was a guest on The Alan Colmes Show, a FOX News radio program. The topic was an interesting one - whether or not an internet service provider should allow Horsley to post the names of abortion doctors on his website. Horsley does that as a way of targeting them and one doctor has been killed. In the course of the interview, however, Colmes asked Horsley about his background, including a statement that he had admitted to engaging in homosexual and bestiality sex.

At first, Horsley laughed and said, "Just because it's printed in the media, people jump to believe it."

"Is it true?" Colmes asked.

"Hey, Alan, if you want to accuse me of having sex when I was a fool, I did everything that crossed my mind that looked like I..."

AC: "You had sex with animals?"

NH: "Absolutely. I was a fool. When you grow up on a farm in Georgia, your first girlfriend is a mule."

AC: "I'm not so sure that that is so."

NH: "You didn't grow up on a farm in Georgia, did you?"

AC: "Are you suggesting that everybody who grows up on a farm in Georgia has a mule as a girlfriend?"

NH: It has historically been the case. You people are so far removed from the reality... Welcome to domestic life on the farm..."

Colmes said he thought there were a lot of people in the audience who grew up on farms, are living on farms now, raising kids on farms and "and I don't think they are dating Elsie right now. You know what I'm saying?"

Horsley said, "You experiment with anything that moves when you are growing up sexually. You're naive. You know better than that... If it's warm and it's damp and it vibrates you might in fact have sex with it."

In addition to Horsley, Colmes has recently interviewed Randall Terry another radical anti-abortionist and anti-gay activist. In the middle of an otherwise serious interview, Terry began joking - apropos of nothing - that he and Colmes were ex-lovers.

Another extremist interviewed by Colmes not too long ago was Rev. Fred Phelps who stated on the show that he thought the death penalty should be given for those who engage in "sodomy." When Colmes asked Phelps if he had ever engaged in gay sex, Phelps blustered but never said no.

Hmm, I'm beginning to sense a pattern here. Come to think of it, Ann Coulter is reputed to have an unusually, er, wide-ranging sex life, too, though as far as I know it's just confined to men. Still, it doesn't exactly match the profile of an ultra-conservative.

Axis....you're Canadian remember? You don't mean anything to anyone.

Jeremiah:

==================================================

Merriam-Webster defines fascism as "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

The American Heritage Dictionary instead describes it as "A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."

A recent definition that has attracted much favorable comment is that by Robert O. Paxton:

"Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion." (Anatomy of Fascism, p 218)

Mussolini defined fascism as being a right-wing ideology in opposition to socialism, liberalism, democracy and individualism.

==================================================

Anyway you cut it, Jeremiah, fascism is what most closely describes the neoconservatives currently in power.

It is so far removed from "liberal", I doubt you'd be able to see it from your bunker peephole.

wuzupdawk,

Well, Then maybe I should call you Two-headed facist or in simple terms TWO FACED, whatever you want to call yourself.

Anyway you look at it their aren't any, "NO NOT ONE" Liberal GOOD enough for office, and as far as "MORALITY" IS CONCERNED, PERIOD!.

wuzupdawk,

Well, Then maybe I should call you Two-headed facist or in simple terms TWO FACED, whatever you want to call yourself.

Anyway you look at it there aren't any, "NO NOT ONE" Liberal "GOOD" enough for office, and as far as "MORALITY" IS CONCERNED, PERIOD!.

Jerry,

Take a chill-pill, i can feel the veins popping out of your head everytime you write something.

You may not BELIEVE there are any good liberals, but any of the christian-conservative hypocrites you THINK are better suited for office are at this very moment signing the death warrants of American citizen for a lie, all the while causing untold (and uncounted) deaths all over the globe, not very compassionate, nor Jesus-like. Don't go launching stones from your glass house buck-o.
You should come down to Florida and ill show you a good time, ill get you laid...to a woman none-the-less, and ill fill you in on how we are gonna fix the screw-ups Der Leader and his motley crew have unleashed on our world, so pack your bible, and come on in for the big win!

THIRD EYE SHUT, OR SHOULD I SAY.....

LEE BO THE TURD FACE THIRD EYE SHUT,

BUDDY YOU MUST HAVE THE WRONG FELLOW, I'M A BUSH SUPPORTER NOT AN ILLEGAL COKEHEAD LIBERAL SUCH AS YOURSELF, SO CHILL DUDE.

Jerry,

You're so cute, you wanna come on down and take me on a date, you whisper sweet nothing in my ear like you do here, and I might let you get to third.

Jerry,

By the way, what the heck is "LEE BO THE TURD FACE THIRD EYE SHUT" exactly mean? I don't get out much anymore, and I may not be down with the latest jive you kids are talkin these days

Jeremiah, settle down, your eyes are popping out of you head, if you are not careful, you may have an irresistable urge to mate with a mule like some of your religious peers advocate.

I never knew before bestality was a conservative ideal. I know better now

Hey, Jeremiah. Chill, dude. All I'm saying is that, by throwing around big words like fascist, without knowing what they mean, you're making yourself look like an uneducated fool - kind of like a sheep without wool.

Matthew 5:44,

I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagan's do that? Be perfect therefore as your heavenly father is perfect.

So maybe if I pray for you two perverted heathen's(axis powers and third eye shut) the DEMONS will COME OUT of you some day?

wuzupdawk,

I appreciate the help, But you didn't need to use your dictionary definition of FASCISM to degrade the conservative party in that way.

cheers.

Third Eye,

I would appreciate it if you would stop these personal slanders against my brother. They are grotesque, and they don't have a place in this type of blog space. This is a place for intelligent discussion, not ignorant moronic stuff like what you have posted here.

Go out and get yourself in a good Bible beleiving church, Third Eye. Maybe then you will see the truth and come to really know Jesus Christ, and experience that refreshing turn around that he offers to everyone, not just a select group. You, along with every other sinner, have a unique opportunity to come to know Jesus as Lord and Savior of your life. Jesus, like a gentleman, says that he merely knocks at the door and waits for a response. He doesn't come crashing into your life like a rhino and demand that you get saved. He doesn't make unreasonable demands, or force you to do anything, he merely just asks, and waits. How can anyone refuse to befriend such a gentleman and awe-inspiring savior as Jesus? He offers the truth, and untold riches in heaven to those who will accept ... HOW CAN YOU DENY THAT MAN?!?! It is beyond me...

At any rate ... We have a good idea who you are, Third Eye...so please, stop now. I'm asking nicely.

Lucas

Looks like Jeremiah called in the bible thumper calvary...

Jeremiah,

“Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents and harmless as doves” (Matthew 10:16).

This is you. Bush and cheney are serpents and you have aligned with them and adopted their killing and murderous ways. Their unholy wickedness has corrupted you. You are neither wise as serpents, nor harmless as doves. Instead you advocate killing and murder and the more the better.

"[Matthew 5:9] Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."

"A citizen of the Kingdom is a peace peddler, representing Jesus, the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6)"

"Hebrews 12:14 Make every effort to live in peace with all men."

-- Again, not you, you are a warmonger

"Thessalonians 4:11-12 Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you"

-- Means mind your own business and do not mess with others business like you want to do

""Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 6:1-6 RSV)"

"Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves [MAT 7:15]"

-- Bush and Cheney, Jeremiah. Bush and Cheney. Beware.

"I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Matt. 9:13)."

-- This is you, self-righteous Jeremiah

" Luke. 12:15 - "be on guard against every form of greed; life is not in possessions""

-- Is this you Jeremiah, or are you greedy.

"II Peter 2:3 - in their greed they will exploit you with false words"

-- Bush Cheney exploiting poor Jeremiah for their greed

You are in a whole world of hurt Jeremiah, you best mend you ways and repent.

Lucas,

I have found my personal relationship with God/Jesus/Buddah/Allah/Yaweh/The Universe/All That Is so you can save your sanctimonious rants for someone who cares.

Fact: Your leaders are killing innocent civilians. Do you agree with this action, do you have biblical text stating that Jesus advocates pre-emptive war that has the unintended cost of innocent life?

glass houses son, glass houses.

ill leave you two sheep alone, its no fun anyways when you get all curled up in the corner praying for someone to take away the bad people, this is why you are forsaken, because you won't lift a finger for your well being, and the well being of your neighbors on planet earth. Keep reading your scripture, im sure one day it'll pop out at you that God really wants you to kill people, because obviously he is too impotent to do it Himself, im sure he left you and your twit of a brother as the tip of the spear to cleanse the world for him...the only demons here are the ones claiming piety while advocating death, you false witnesses.

/SHAME!

LEE BO TURD FACE,

That's right Third, Wer'e not going to lift a finger for you lyers because you don't want to let the real truth get out about your background.

Lee bo, why don't you come out and tell the truth that you were once a minister and that you were convicted of marijuana, come on tell the truth now turd face?

Lee bo, You have lived a double life your whole life!!!!!!!!!!SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lee Bo Turd Face,

"ill leave you two sheep alone, its no fun anyways when you get all curled up in the corner praying for someone to take away the bad people, this is why you are forsaken, because you won't lift a finger for your well being, and the well being of your neighbors on planet earth. Keep reading your scripture, im sure one day it'll pop out at you that God really wants you to kill people, because obviously he is too impotent to do it Himself, im sure he left you and your twit of a brother as the tip of the spear to cleanse the world for him...the only demons here are the ones claiming piety while advocating death, you false witnesses." - From Third Eye Shut.

Now that you've called God impotent, let me tell you something, it's short and sweet what I have to say. "He brought you into this world, he can take you out."

And the only reason you want to leave us two "sheep" alone, is because it's clear you are too ignorant to debate the arguement intelligently.

Bush has defended others that were too weak to defend themselves in the end, the Bible clearly states that defending the weaker and innocent is not a crime, but a good thing. So don't go telling me this war is useless, you filthy hypocrit. You're a left wing abomination, All Three Eyes Shut.

Lucas

Lucas,

So much for your idea of benevolent and merciful god, when he lets putz' like you decide who gets taken out of this world. You have no basis for anything you say. Infact I dont think ive seen you or your posterchild for abortion brother say anything resembling an argument or point, infact I would guess you don't even know a single iota of political theory or policy debate, so ill laugh and pity you.

so ill leave you with the greatest advice anyone has ever given me:

"When a man gives you hate, and you don't accept it, then it belongs to him" -Buddah

sticks and stones putz, sticks and stones...Peace!

"AXIS POWERS" QUOTE--

"Looks like Jeremiah called in the bible thumper calvary..."
__________________________________________________

John 5:30

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgement is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

You see axis, I have more than just the word on my side, I have Jesus in my heart, and his judgement is just according to those that betray his word.

So in effect you axis are a false Prophet.

You see axis, You can take the word or the(SWORD) of God and make some of the best christians in the world look like the worst sinners ever born, BUT the word of God was not meant to do this kind of thing, Jesus said "Those who live by the sword will die by the sword"

So you better be wakin up axis, and fast because jesus could return any day now.

"Can God microwave a burrito so hot, that he can't eat it?" -Homer Simpson

Lee Bo or third,

You Illegal cokehead still smoking the happy grass?

I know you are'nt answering me, well, I'm going to be sure the people know about you, of what a terrible double sinful life you have led.

Jerry,

I AM GOD, disprove me

You are writing from prison right third eye?

YEP, I guess so, because you said you don't get out much these days, serves you right lee bo.

That's where smoking marijuana will get you!.

You Smokin Preacher!!

Gen 1:12

"And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good."

I said it was good enough for me, so it's good enough for you, toke away buddy!

Jerry,

Sorry I can't stay any longer, civilizations to smite, dinosaur bones to plant. No rest for the weary diety these days.

-Peace

Lee bo Quote,--

--I said it was good enough for me, so it's good enough for you, toke away buddy!
__________________________________________________

Suspicions confirmed folks, it's him!!!!!!!

NEED I SAY MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lee Bo Part says...

"So much for your idea of benevolent and merciful god, when he lets putz' like you decide who gets taken out of this world. You have no basis for anything you say. Infact I dont think ive seen you or your posterchild for abortion brother say anything resembling an argument or point, infact I would guess you don't even know a single iota of political theory or policy debate, so ill laugh and pity you."
----------------------------------
--Lucas says:
My God is benevolent, he is merciful, and he is real. He gives us all Freedom of Choice, and that doesn't just mean a select few. But to those who reject and smite him, their are consequences. To say things like you have said about The Holy God...I would be very afraid if I were you. Just always remember Third "Truth without Love, is considered barbatry, but Love without Truth IS HYPOCRISY".

I'm not trying to pass judgement on you, though it's very clear you are a mixed up individual who hates Jesus teachings, but I am warning you, along with my brother Jeremiah, that their are devastating consquences for your type behavior.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal righteousness."

I might not know political theory like the back of my hand, but I know one thing, and that is true morality. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT IS, POT SMOKER! I know what the Bible teaches, that's good enough for me, everything else is bypassable. So, you can take your pity and save it for someone else, like yourself...pothead.
------------------------------------------------
Lee Bo Part also says:
""When a man gives you hate, and you don't accept it, then it belongs to him" -Buddah"
----------------------------------------------
Don't go preaching your false prophets garbage to me, fool. I don't want to hear this kind of bologna. Fight your own fights, and leave these false prophets from it. In Buddah's tomb, you will find ashes, rot, and death. In Jesus tomb, there is nothing...simply nothing. It has been proven, and is seen by all today, that Jesus is the only one who has been proven to have risen from the dead. Every major false prophet who has a large following has never been proven to have been raised from the dead, Jesus is the only one. He is the King of the Universe, it is clear. So...save your false prophet garbage for someone else, and your pity.

Lucas

Folks,

Third eye will be back tomorrow at around noon, that is free time for all the prisoners. From noon till three P.M.

Regular readers,

I want to inform you BEWARE of this guy THIRD EYE his real name is LEE BO I won't reveal his last name for his own privacy but,
He's got the mind capability of a pedo, He's a Homosexual, He's a very sick person so beware, He used to live near to my neighborhood, He was a minister several years ago and just about every night he would get really drunk, and then go outside and and start screaming scripture and the neighbors would call the police and they would come and take him in.

About a year ago I found out he was a homosexual, It came as a BIG SHOCK, and following the news about that, his name came up in the newspaper for convictions of marijuana abuse, of course this was after his dad passed away, his life went from half way decent to NOTHING.

His parents tried to raise him right but he turned to rebellion, and would not listen to any thing they tried to teach him.

He serves no purposes here at blogs for bush.

He is writing from prison in florida, or it could be house confinement, I don't know, whichever comes first, but it was just about little over a year ago he was arrested for drug charges.

I hated to break it to you but, the truth had to come out.

I recognized the nick "Jerry" that's how I knew who he was, he also said "Florida" him and his mother left home to go to florida, I guess because he could not get his drugs back home, It really is a shame for people to ruin their lives with drugs and alcohol.

Isn't that funny jeremiah. About as funny as you and lucas posting the exact same way and useing the same name lee bo at the same time.

Me thinks you and lucus are one and the same.

Third eye doesn't come across as an ex-conservative or a conservative at all.

I will say he knows how to get under your bible thumping, scripture shouting skin though, and its funny to watch.

Axis,

If you knew who he was it would be different,
But you don't!!

We know who he is and that's his name, believe it or not!!

And Axis,

You better hope you don't wind up in the same shape as Lee, I'm serious!.

Jeremiah, I am not a fundamentalist, you are. You have a higher chance of turning out just like him.

Jerry,

I really wish you would stop thinking of small animals while you masturbate, remember we can see everything you do up here, and it's kinda freakin' out the locals, so would ya cut back for a while, just until the Jews and Hindus stop looking, pretty please?

Your loving creator,
I AM

axis,

Jeremiah and I are two different persons, whether you choose to believe this or not (I can't force you and can't think of a way to prove it) we are two seperate persons. While we have grown up with the same ideals, we think alike and act alike.

We hunt togethor, we fish togethor, and do all kinds of things togethor.

As I say, I can't force you to beleive me, all I can do is tell you. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it if you don't believe me, just wanted to let you know.

Lucas

Lee,

How are things in the BIG HOUSE? We knew you 'was headed down der' little did you know, it was in the local papers that you were busted on dope charges, and are now doing big time in the concrete house (I'd much rather be in a glass house).

Anyways...Lee, we know who and what you are, why don't you just come out and confess? There are no more ideaology shields for you to hide behind Lee, the truth is out in the open. Why not fess up? I know you, being a former Christian, might have a hard time lying. But seems like it wouldn't be so hard considering the trailer trash you've been spewing round these parts.

I really hate to see you've gotten into this shape, Lee...I hope one day you will see the truth and the err in your ways.

Btw, you said "sticks and stones" earlier. Well, I'll second the stone part, you "is always stooooned!"

Hope the South land treats you well, son.

Regards,
Lucas.

Lucas,

Did you really mean what you prayed about last night, when you said, "Jesus, why don't women relate to me when I tell them about all the wonderful things you do for them?"

because I can give you the answer...it's your extremely limited conversational skills. Perhaps you should learn French or take a pottery class, get out, stop jerking off to pictures of baskets full of kittens, and get a tan, for MY sake.

Your loving father,

I AM

Lee Bo,

You COWARD, What's wrong Lee can't FESS UP?

TOO BAD, Your up the creek bud, It's too late!!

Jerry,

Stop touching yourself to Linda Ronstadt videos, you're gonna rub all the skin off.

Your benevolent diety,

I AM

I skipped the liberal prattle--just wanted to point out the Left support for NAMBLA---the North American Man-Boy Love Association, so beloved of the ACLU and Hollywood liberals, who defend it to the max.

Their prime purpose, of course, is to let adult men "love" little boys---and they call it "love", not abuse or rape or any of the words that naturally come to mind.

Like it or not, the liberals are the ones who tend to actively defend such degeneracy. And, in a similar vein, it is the liberals who are determined to miscast the sexual predators in the Catholic Church as "pedophiles" even though they do not qualify under the definition of the term. Nearly every one of them is a homosexual preying on adolescent, post-pubescent, boys. We are not supposed to focus on the homosexual aspect because of its protection under political correctness statutes, so much loved by the Left.

And if we really want to get into it, that (the evolution of the Catholic seminary as a sanctuary for predatory homosexuals) came about only because of the Left coup within the Church, back in the 60's. Remember the hysteria about electing a "conservative" Pope in Benedict? That hysteria came from the lefties who were seeing their control over the Church threatened.

Gee, I think it was the Left who argued that it was fine for a president of the United States to be sexually serviced by a very much younger subordinate, in the Oval Office---it was "just sex" to them, and anyone who found it distasteful was a prude---a "Religious Right" fanatic.

It's liberal Hollywood spreading the illuison, worldwide, that all Americans are promiscuous, amoral, hump-a-woodpile-on-the-chance-there-might-be-a-snake-in-it, breast-baring, adulterous, slaves to our genitals. And celebrating it!

The Left has staked out its "If It Feels Good Do It" territory and defended it for decades---it's a little late now to start complaining about being seen that way.

Change, if you like. Become more conservative. Become more discerning. Become more committed to personal responsibility. But don't complain about the image you worked so hard to establish, and which is so extensively documented.

Robert's rant does point out something that has baffled me for years. That is, people who have solid conservative values yet who are so blinded by emotion that they vote against their own best interests.

I have family members who do this. To hear them talk, they are conservatives----good family values, leading righteous lives if not overtly religious, against gun control, in favor of small government, owning small businesses profiting from the economic boom of the post-tax-cut Bush economy, patriotic, etc.....yet imbued with a loathing of Republicans so profound they consistentl