*Chuckles*

One down, only about 5 Billion more tax things to go.

Good riddance for this tax.

How many more can Bush find to get rid of?
How many more will the democrats fight to keep?

Thanks GWB!

Y'know what would really surprise me, if Bush instead of just trying to lower taxes would actually just start doing away with "wars" on things. For instance how much would be saved by decriminalizing pot...billions I would assume, I mean c'mon guys what does it say about our ability to fight pretend wars when you sit back and think that potheads are kickin' your butt?
Ok, how about the war on illiteracy...you're losing to people who can't even read. Ok, Ok I have it! Let's stop this silly war on poverty, I mean if you cant beat homeless people who don't even have enough money to eat on a regular basis, who the heck are you gonna beat? If you really wanna war you can win, you might as well just declare war on fat people, they aren't gonna move very fast, and you can always setup a sting for them at the nearest Krispy Kream...or just cut the military budget in half and pay for things we need like healthcare and teachers, but whats the fun in that?

Politicians fall in love with these taxes and never let them go....or they wait 100 years. NO NEW TAXES

Third Eye Open, could you not be any more ignorant than you sounded from your post. I mean you ought to be happy that you wont be paying that excise tax anymore and you will problably get a refund on it. One other thing, if the militiary isnt equipped to protect us, healthcare and education arent going to mean a thing.

Wow, so instead of paying 5 cents on long distance you are paying 5 cents on your long diatance because the phone companies gulp up this tax reduction without passing it along.

Thanks for helping AT&T get even richer President Bush!

Never a tax you didn't like is there Axis. Stay in Canada, it's perfect for you.

Thanks for helping AT&T get even richer President Bush!

It's just Bush's way of saying "thanks for the data."

Now, where's my thousand bucks for AT&T violating their privacy agreement? Oh, that's right, Bush gave AT&T permission to lie about it by saying if it's a matter of "security," they don't have to tell us what they do with our data.

Good on ya, John Snow. Don't let the door hit you in the backside on your way out.

No Warrior, I hate excess taxes, my point is that if the tax is already built into the cost of long distance, do you seriously expect for the phone companies whose sole purpose is to make as much money as possible to pass this savings onto you?

Are you really that niave?

Its like cutting taxes on gas, ok sounds good except that big oil swallows that 3 cent a gallon savings up and then some and you never get to see it.

All this was is a tax cut to the phone companies. Consumers will never see a nickle

Hey Warrior, too bad about that "no new taxes" thing, huh?

WHY, IT'S A NEW TAX!

But those college students can certainly afford a tax INCREASE more than us millionaires, right?

Well, if the excise tax is 108 years old, what have they been doing with the money for the last 108 years???? Wasn't the Spanish American War only two years long? What kind of excise tax will be levied on our descendents to pay for our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Its like the toll on the Delaware Memorial Bridge---I can see paying it for maybe 20 years to cover construction costs (though I thought that's what gas taxes were supposed to cover). But who ever comes along and tells you---the bridge was paid for a long time ago-we're not going to charge the toll anymore to drive across.

Is there any tax that far left wing lunatics like axis and congressive don't like?

Typical ”me” generation responses. Instead of getting a tax cut as a reward for cutting the size of government get your tax cuts now and let the next generation deal with the deficits. It’s the best of both worlds, you spend like liberals and pay nothing in taxes. Yeah you’ll get yours, and hand off a deficit ridden hulk to your children. The real smaller government conservatives left with Newt.

Axis, you have about the dumbest post I've read this week. On your phone bill, the tax is listed and added to your bill. It's not bundled. For my local $12 residental line, there is an additional $10.98 of "fees" and taxes.

William McKinley was a bit like President Bush. Got into a war due to faulty intelligence presented to him. I wonder what the Democrats were saying then?

Here, let me be really clear about this: I do not like raising taxes on pre-college-age children who are trying to be responsible and pay for their own college. That is a bad tax HIKE by BUSH.

I also do not like Republicans who say "no new taxes" and then RAISE taxes on the poor, while their ditto-heads all accuse the Democrats of raising taxes. This is hypocracy. And unfair.

But apparently CJ doesn't think much of college.

Hmm, interesting Congressive. Most people got a tax break so I'd love to see how all of these pre-college age kids got a tax hike. Please explain.

I'd also like to know why you guys oppose the marriage tax break.

Finally, I see you have become judge and jury again. Care to show us where AT&T has any data on you or anyone else? Because a USA Today story had it? Is that all you got? Was it in a pretty pie chart of theirs?

Talk about rush to judgement which seems to be the only game you guys play.

Well, politicians some times just take forever (or until a highly contested election year) to discover seemingly obvious truths about policy... I mean, it took them almost five years after the WOT's implimentation to even start talking about border security... sheesh...

Nothing like cutting taxes to those making $100 million a year and passing the burden onto your 14 year old kid trying to save for school.

Bushonomics hard at work. Poor get poor, rich get richer.

With his other cuts, 90% of america gets $40-$150 extra back a year, the richest 10% get millions back. Then they pass the debt and the burden onto the next president and generation.

Bushonomics. Take a problem, make it worse, then let someone else figure it out.

Axis....an example please. You and the other liberal frogs keep saying this example. Care to provide a cited case and ALL the details or is this just another kooky left wing blogosphere lie?

More lies from the left.

For example, the Coverdell IRA (used to be known as the Educational IRA) had a limit of $500 per year you could set aside tax free for college. When Bush was elected President his plan pushed through $2000.00 per year in savings.

Sure sounds like he's hurting those kids saving for college. DOH!

And now the REST OF THE STORY that Ash, AXIS, Congressive and others don't want you to hear about the $69 billion tax extension from last week as it relates to college kids.

"I've said many times, on the Senate floor, in the Congressional Record, to anyone who will listen -- and apparently certain Democratic leaders won't -- that no one is abandoning the extension of the college tuition tax deduction. It's going in the second tax bill, under development right now," said Sen. Charles E. Grassley, Iowa Republican and chairman of the Senate Finance Committee.

Apparently Ash, Axis and others just forgot to mention this. I believe they call this....ahem...CHERRYPICKING the facts.

For example, the Coverdell IRA (used to be known as the Educational IRA) had a limit of $500 per year you could set aside tax free for college. When Bush was elected President his plan pushed through $2000.00 per year in savings.

-- Wow. Thats something, however its offered with the knowledge that the vast majority of students won't get anywhere near the savings threshold.

Warrior, when is that cut coming, before or after the election?

Look like little more than a promised cut, not a definitive cut. Come back when its a reality, not smoke and mirrors.

So Axis, if I get it straight you are saying that increasing the amount you can save from $500 a year to $2000 a year TAX FREE is no big deal? With my kids, that means over 18 years of saving I will be able to save an additional $27,000 PER kid plus all of the compound interest it receives over that 18 year period.

Sorry, if you think that is inconsequential but it's not.

College SHOULD NOT be free for everyone. It should require a cost to attend and a cost in effort.

As for when the cut is coming...I thought you guys didn't like cuts or are these the ones that are ok? It's all so confusing.

Stop the hypocrisy Axis.

Now back to bed before mommy gets upset with you. And don't forget to turn the lights off in Saskatchewan, I think Uncle Buck left for the weekend and he forgot to pull the string.

Warrior, to some it will be good. To others, the tax increase hurts them as they only can sock away so much in a year and wont reach the higher threshold.

So once again, the ones that can afford to sock away more, get the lions share of the pie. Those that can't get screwed.

The problem is that the richest 10% of america are paying virtually no taxes. They do this thru clever legal tax avoidance techniques. These people should be paying the lions share, not getting the most breaks. They should pay more not because of a higher tax percentage, but because of a higher annual income threshold.

But, it should be fair. like 35% state and federal combined max. Here in Canada, we pay close to 50% for the higher brackets. Thats too high.

At the moment, America is run by big business and the government. The middle class is only left to exist by their good graces. American jobs are getting sent to india where its cheaper. Unions are being crushed and replaced with low paid workers.

Right now in fact, Bush is pushing a bill that would crush the union for air traffic controllers, who currently make a huge, whopping $35 000 per year. They want ot fire these all and hire others for $7.50 an hour. Mcdonalds wages. These are the people that ensure you planes get to where they are going and not hit one another. The most important job at an airport

Somethings wrong with america, seriously. You wont see it until they come for you job, which they will eventually. Then you will look around, unemployed, too old to retrain and wonder what happened.

Click the link, Warrior. Click the link.

Ok, all you policy wonks, let me ask you a few questions, and lets see just how into things you really are?

Can anyone tell me how the government requires businesses who make over 5 million in profits each year to keep their books, its a form of accounting called accrual accounting, this takes into consideration that we pay for things on credit, that there will be a price to pay, with interest, but that we aknowlege and accept this debt owed...but the american government does not, they use a system called cash accounting, which only accounts for things that are due, and which are being paid for upon delivery of the good or service. Now, with that said, I would argue that the 8.4 trillion in national debt we currently have is blatantly false, it doesn't account for the things we have bought on credit, nor the emergency funds for the WOT, nor the shortfall and IOUs that the critters keep stuffing into social Securities "lockbox"...now why is it required for american business to be held to higher standards, when our drunken sailor congress and their admiral keep spending, with no end in sight?

Warriornation,

Don't you know that "axis" is a avowed socialist who thinks everyone should get free college education, paid for by the "rich"?

Did you also know that the top 10% richest Americans are paying virutally no income tax? Really, they aren't. Since I fall into that category, I wonder what that $21,000 I paid in Federal Income Tax was. In axis' virtual world, that was no income tax paid. In the real world, it was $21,000.

In the real world, the top 10% paid $492,452,000,000 in Federal Income Tax, about 66% of the total collected (2003 figures). In axis' virtual world, that 66% is zero. So if the top 10% paid virtually no taxes, and the bottom 90% paid only 33% of the total federal income taxes, who paid the rest? Enquiring minds want to know.

And those Air Traffic Controllers who are only making an average of $35,000 per year (in axis' virtual world). Did you know that: "The average annual salary, excluding overtime earnings, for air traffic controllers in the Federal Government—which employs 90 percent of the total—in nonsupervisory, supervisory, and managerial positions was $106,380 in May 2004." (From the Bureau of Labor Statistics) Even the lowest paid (those rookies working at small airports) make over $55,000 per year.

Ya wonder why axis keeps throwing out facts that are complete lies and can easily be fact-checked. I personally think he's a glutton for punishment. He throws out his outrageous claims for us to smack down, yet he keeps coming back for more.

so are you upset that the people who take a lions share of the output from the lower class are required to pay the lions share of taxes?

shut yer hole and deal with it, when corporate america starts investing in their employees again, instead of seeing us as replaceable cogs who can be milked for never-enough productivity, then you can whine about your taxes. When the reality that stagnating wages (in real dollars) over the past 30 years are causing more households to work longer hours, for less benefits, creating more latch-key kids, when we can sit down like adults and discuss what normal folks need to work towards that american dream, then we can start talking about lowering your tax burden, till then you can kiss my cuban-italian butt if you think I give two shakes of a monkey's butt about your tax burden!

3rd eye....your accounting statements are wrong. We use accrual accounting all of the time.

Third Eye....you better wake up to reality. If you think we're going backwards to being less productive or less of a "cog" in today's global economy, you're kidding yourself.

We will have 20% unemployment if we go that route.

A-10

That is because they are high on emotion and short on facts. They parrot crap left and more left from Daily Kos and the other sites where people don't work, bitch constantly and generally don't have a life. Or they are made up of a bunch of teenagers and college kids that have yet to actually go out into the lion's den and see what the world is really like.

Liberals are what they are.

Warriornation, Ofcourse we use accrual accounting in government, just not to define our debt, we are still using cash accounting, thus we are still not properly viewing our debt load...do you argue that our debt does not account for sociaol security or WOT? so therefore the number we are quoted are basically half the truth?

and by the way, I have been a fulltime worker for 10 years now, I have seen the lion's den, and it aint pretty, but if you think that the capital flight that we allow to go on in america is somehow a benefit, youre crazier than the KOS Kids.

3 eyes closed,
You misunderstand Accrual and Cash Accounting.
Accrual Accounting used to be used in Cost of Goods Sold businesses where the receipts (income) was required to match the expenses, when those expenses were directly related to the cost of the products that were being sold, this is called the Matching Principle,/i> of Accounting. Cash Accounting uses the accounting period end date as the cutoff for matching. Since 1998 the government has allowed businesses in the COGS businesses (that are those with inventory) to use the Cash Method for calculating profit

The Government uses Fund Accounting, that is, designated fund sources are restricted in the use and must be accounted for by the end of the fiscal year. Most Governmental Agencies are not allowed to carry funds for extended periods unless they are designated to a purpose.

None of these methods have anything to do with the deficit or the debt.

3 eyes closed,
You misunderstand Accrual and Cash Accounting.
Accrual Accounting used to be used in Cost of Goods Sold businesses where the receipts (income) was required to match the expenses, when those expenses were directly related to the cost of the products that were being sold, this is called the Matching Principle, of Accounting. Cash Accounting uses the accounting period end date as the cutoff for matching. Since 1998 the government has allowed businesses in the COGS businesses (that are those with inventory) to use the Cash Method for calculating profit.
The Government uses Fund Accounting, that is, designated fund sources are restricted in the use and must be accounted for by the end of the fiscal year. Most Governmental Agencies are not allowed to carry funds for extended periods unless they are designated to a purpose.

None of these methods have anything to do with the deficit or the debt.

Don't you know that "axis" is a avowed socialist who thinks everyone should get free college education, paid for by the "rich"?

-- Indeed, yes. But not paid for by the rich, but by taxpayers. If you spent half of what you spent on Iraq, you could easily pay for free college eductions to qualified students.

Several european countries have done this as a pilot project and it has had a tremendous positive effect on the economy, with trained people filling opening and with people being able to reach for that which was out of reach before.

Its you capitalists that believe that college should only be for those that can afford the ever growing tuitions.

Did you also know that the top 10% richest Americans are paying virutally no income tax? Really, they aren't. Since I fall into that category, I wonder what that $21,000 I paid in Federal Income Tax was. In axis' virtual world, that was no income tax paid. In the real world, it was $21,000.

-- Really A-10, you are in the top 10% of income earners? So you are making $10-100 million a year +? Wow. And you only paid $21 000 in taxes? Wow. Yup, you making millions and only paying $21 000 in tax definately shows you are paying virtually NO income tax. Considering a few years ago, my gross income was over $800 000 a year and I was paying over $300 000 in taxes on it, you are paying virtually nothing. Thanks for making my point.

In the real world, the top 10% paid $492,452,000,000 in Federal Income Tax, about 66% of the total collected (2003 figures). In axis' virtual world, that 66% is zero.

-- Nope. Said virtually zero. So take that 492 billion and check to see what the total incomes in the top 10% of america were and you will find that number in the multi-trillions. Say six trillion to be conservative. Thats 6000 million, and only 500 million collected in tax. Whats that an average of 12%? Pretty cheap to be the richest ones in america these days.

Once again we venture in to the virtual world of the liberal.

Where should I start? How about with some facts:

Adjusted Gross Income Floor - Top 10%: $94,891. (2003 figures). The Floor for the Top 5%: $130,080. For the Top 1%: $295,495. In the liberal, virtual world, the top 10% make a least $10,000,000 a year.

WOW. There's quite a difference between the liberal, virtual world and reality. Based on the ratio between the liberal, virtual world and reality, someone claiming to make $800,000 in Canada, actually makes about $8,000.

And how much did the top 10%, 5%, and 1% earn? I'm glad you asked. The total income for the top 10% was $2,663,470,000,000. Hmmm. In the liberal, virtual world, they made $6,000,000,000,000. Or over twice as much. In fact the total income in the US in 2003 was $6,287,586,000,000. Or about what the liberals (at least those in Canada) think the top 10% earn.

Based on the liberal, virtual world, with the top 10% earning over $10,000,000 a year and the fact that there were 12,860,979 total tax returns for the top 10%, their total income would be at least $128,609,790,000,000. That's 128 Trillion. Or about 2 1/2 times the world's GDP. Or about 48 times as much as they actually earn.

So what does this mean? Based on the liberal, virtual reality, the top 10% either earn a total of $6 Trillion, or $128 Trillion. They really earn about $2.6 Trillion. I'm so confused. Why can a liberal tell the truth. Especially when the facts are readily available. I guess its just their nature to lie.

Now what is the average tax rate of the top 10%? In the liberal, virtual world its approaching zero. In reality it was 18.5%. For the top 5%, it was 20.75%. For the top 1%, it was 24.3%.

Now for some remedial math for our Canadian friends. When you calculate percentage, for instance what percentage is 500 of 6000, you divide the smaller number by the larger number. So 500 is about 8.3% of 6000. Apparently in Canada, you divide the larger number by the smaller number. Maybe that's why their dollar is so devalued. They've been calculating percentages backwards. Those silly Canadians.

Well, I've about all the liberal, virtual world I can stand for today. Back to the real world.

Oh, A-10,

you are hopeless. You really believe that the TOP 10% of income earners in America are only making upper middle class wages of less that $100 000?

Get a clue. A family with 2 blue or white collar workers (husband and wife) are the TOP 10% of america?

The top 10% are the Bill gates, warren buffets, paul allens, the walton family, all the way down the the real estate magnates. These people spend more on ties that you make in a year.

The middle class is the mainstream of america, with incomes less that a million a year.

Let's see. I post facts, people from Canada post lies, distortions, and half-truths. And I need to get a clue?

Here are some clues for the liberal, virtual world. They are based on the official facts reported by the IRS. I have no reason to believe that they are not true. Of course, in the liberal, virtual world there are no truths, only relativism.

In 2003, there were 128,609,786 personal income tax returns filed in the the US. If we are going to examine the top 1% of those wage earners, we divide 128,609,786 by 100 (that's probably not how they would calculate it in Canada, but that's how the rest of the world calculates it) and get 1,286,097. Then we look at what the income is of that 1,286,097th return. It was $295,495. That means the minimum earned by the top 1% was $295,495. Not the average. That was $819,974. But the floor.

Now for the top 10%, we divide the 128,609,786 by 10, and get 12,860,978 (again US math, not Canadian math). When we look at the 12,860,978th return we see that they earned $94,891. So that's the floor. Meaning everyone in the top 10% made at least $94,891. The average was actually $207,096.

So yes, the two income family making 100K are in the top 10%, but near the bottom of the percentile.

Gates, Buffett, and the rest are actually in the top 1/10th of 1%. And remember, we are talking about income, not net worth. Bill Gates actually made $700,000 in salary in 2005 and received $400,000 in bonuses (from Microsoft's proxy statement).

And I doubt Gates bought over $150,000 worth of ties last year.

Seems to be some equations missing from your US math calculation.

First, you are assuming that the IRS adds the tax return totals by gross income, then you take that unsubstantiated assumption, pick a single return out and assume that that has to be the floor of the totals. Basically, you are picking a number out of the air and running with it.

You are assuming that the moon is made of green cheese and are now calculating how many people you can feed with it

Your calculations are baseless without substiantive evidence that your assumptions are valid.

Now for the top 10%, we divide the 128,609,786 by 10, and get 12,860,978 (again US math, not Canadian math). When we look at the 12,860,978th return we see that they earned $94,891. So that's the floor. Meaning everyone in the top 10% made at least $94,891. The average was actually $207,096.

I'm not assuming anything. When the table on the IRS web site says "Adjusted Gross Income - Total", it means Adjusted Gross Income - Total.

The rest of my "assumptions" are based on facts readily available on the IRS web site.

Talk about picking numbers out of the air. Do "Top 10% - $10 to $100,000,000 annual income", $6 Trillion, and $800,000 sound familiar?

As usual, you have no facts. You have no logic. You have nothing. Goodbye.

President McKinley, another tax and spend republican.

When we look at the 12,860,978th return we see that they earned $94,891.

-- and where exactly did you come up the this figure. You pick the last return out of a list and assume that it is the lowest in terms of gross income.

Your calculations are based on blind assumptions and therefor worthless.

A question for all of you who comment on Blogs for Bush: are all Canadians as dense as "axis"? My father-in-law was born in Canada, and he wasn't dense by any stretch of the imagination.

Better yet, are all liberals as dense as "axis"? "Axis" continues to amaze me with his stupidity. I pointed out that the floor for the top 10% income earners in the US is $94,891. Now, this is the official figure supplied by the IRS. But "axis" thinks I made up the figure, thus it's a blind assumption and therefore worthless.

First of all, it's the figure given by the IRS, so that makes it official, since they are the US agency responsible for our income tax system. That's our first problem. I give "axis" a fact that's easily verified, and he thinks its a blind assumption. Only in the liberal, virtual world.

Second, its easy to rationalize and calculate. The IRS rank ordered all 128,609,786 personal income tax returns in the US for 2003 from highest to lowest. Now, to identify the top 10% of wage earners, they divided 128,609,786 by 10 and got 12,860,978. So they went down the list, from highest to lowest, until they got to the 12,860,978th return. That is the floor for the top 10%. That return showed $94,891 in gross income. That's how the floor is determined.

Its not rocket science, people. A fifth-grader could figure it out, but it's beyond the mental capabilities of "axis", who claims to have earned $800,000 a couple of years ago, to comprehend.

Proof again that liberalism is a mental disease. Not only does it cloud their judgement, and cause irrational hatred for anyone who doesn't adhere to their virtual view of the world, it affects their ability to understand simple mathematical calculations. I think that we should contact the AMA (that's the American Medical Association for you Canadians) and tell them we discovered another symptom of liberalism - diminished ability to understand simple math concepts.

A-10,
As an Accountant, an Accounting Teacher certified by the State of California, and a Government Fiscal Analyst, I certify that your calculations and your logic is accurate.

I don't understand axis; perhaps it's the schools in Canada, I've taught accounting to several kids from British Columbia and they seemed to grasp the concepts. I'm guessing axis is simply retarded and his day nurse doesn't know he's playing with a computer.

Maybe it is Canada, you say your father-in-law was born in Canada but he got out. Maybe the first step to recovery is recognizing you have a problem.

Bane,

He was born there, but moved back to the US when he was very young, and raised in the US as a US citizen. Was a recon pilot in WWII, got shot down and was helped back to England by the Free French. Rose to the rank of Major General in the Air National Guard. Not your typical Canadian.

A-10,
Thank him for his service, if he's still with us.

That's three theories blown to hell; 1) Canadians are all cowards, 2) the French couldn't help themselves much less someone from another country and, 3) the Air National Guard is full of draft dodgers and chickenhawks.
What am I to believe in now?

Bane,

Unfortunately, he passed away three years ago at the age of 80. But I'm sure he's looking down from heaven and appreciates your thanks. By the way, one of my brothers-in-law was recently promoted to Brigadier General and the other is a Lt Colonel in the Air National Guard. I was the black sheep of the family. I retired as a Lt Colonel in the Army National Guard.

My brother-in-law Bob (the one-star) was one of the first pilots scrambled on 9/11. He was in the air within minutes and flew combat air patrols over Detroit. Both the Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve are full partners with the Air Force. Many types of capabilities are only found in the Reserve Components.

A-10,

I will concede to your conclusions that that you have clarified your sources, which you did not do before.

axis,

Apology accepted.