Democrats want accountability on Iraq. This administration has been secretive and deceptive, and congress has exercised almost no oversight. That leaves the military and the press, who have spoken out. We were fed a load of b*** leading up to the invasion, and Rumsfeld ignored Centcom plans for regime change that had taken a decade to develop. He willfully ignored advice to use a larger force to maintain the peace and at the same time chose to disband the Iraqi army, leaving the country in a state of chaos. He didn't send needed body armor to the few troops that were there. Many died needlessly. Bush has chosen to ignore the retired generals who have spoken out, just as he ignored Murtha.
I don't see how you can get away with calling a decorated marine, who loves the military and who has dedicated his life to public service a traitor. He's a patriot, and he's won a patriot's award.
Of course, you have shown your pettiness in denigrating the man, the award and the great president who's book inspired the award.

"I really don't know how to explain Democrats these days...do any of them understand that if we were to lose in Iraq, it wouldn't be George Bush and "Bush's war" which are lost?"

-- You are wrong there Mark.. This war is Bush's baby. Win or lose. The dead and casaulties are all on his shoulders. He falsified intelligence and lied to get the war going, then screwed it all up and keeps screwing it up with no hope of changing course or strategies.

Now that its going all to hell, you Republicans want to shift the blame and pass the buck. Alternatively, if had has won, or it was going well, you would be hailing him as a war hero.

Hes a schmuck, all that remains is for you 28% left to see it too and join the other 3/4 of america.

You know, back in Murthas day - Semper Fi Mac -was a deragatory term akin to F**k You. It went out of style for a while. In more recent years Semper Fi has been reborn as a motivating phrase by marines.

But in Murthas case - I like the traditional definition. Semper Fi Mac!

Murtha and his buddies are at best disgusting and paying homage to each other with their phony awards changes nothing.

Look, everyone, axis of dumbasses is a good parrot--he knows how to repeat all the DNC talking points.

You're a putz and a coward, axis. Why don't you come up with something original?

What i wouldn't give to se axis starring in an Al-Zarqawi video...

Mark

This thread is truly disappointing. If you were offered the honor of receiving that award, you would throw it in the garbage. How pathetic.

What has happened to the pride Americans had in their country? When Kennedy was President, the U.S. was not the laughing stock it now has become.
With all his faults, Kennedy remains head and shoulders above the current occupant of the White House. He had class and that showed in the world arena where, if not loved, America was admired.

This malicious condition now affecting the fibre of your society is not conducive to a healthy environment. I hope you will get well soon.

Yeah, CO he had class..sure he did...the only male in that family that had any, was Joe, Jr. and he didn't live long enough to disappoint. Camelot was a media myth!Nice clothes tho....he was a charming suit....

Canadian---

Please don't judge Americans by these posters. Most Americans understand that Kennedy offered tremendous vision and vigorous leadership. He inspired an entire generation. If you doubt it, research his inaugural address, and his funeral. He had his enemies, but was mourned as a great American hero.

GWB, Cheney, Rove, ---none of them have the character of a John F. Kennedy or of a John Murtha either. These posters know it-which is why they are so defensive, and why they can only spew out the administration's canned spin. When faced with real facts they always attack the source, which shows the weakest character of all.Cheers to our good neighbors up North---hope our countries become the close allies we once were.

Hey Canada

When kennedy was president he was humping everything in sight including an East German spy. He let the Bay of Pigs go ahead, and then abandoned the men involved on the beach. He put his young lawyer brother (with no trial experience) in as Attorney General of the United States. Russia respected us so much that they built the Berlin Wall and tried to put nuclear weapons in Cuba. He responded by bringing the world closer to nuclear holocaust than at any other time.

So - which of THOSE accomplishments do you value the most?

Keefer, how old are you? Seven?
Grow up, you immature jackass.

"When kennedy was president he was humping everything in sight including an East German spy."

-- Yeah, I noticed that the president's sex life is a big deal to you conservatives. Lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, torturing, corruption, starting illegal wars, illegal spying is all ok in your books. But heaven forbid if the president should be a womanizer.

Keefer, its ok, I love you too,

The truth really hurts and you aren't into pain.

Never fret, soon you will have lots to bitch about when all your GOP friends are being investigated and indicted and impeached.

Then you will be able to talk about all the liberal comspiracies. "How dare they provide proper oversight" "His lie only killed a quarter of a million people, get over it" "He only violated federal law, whats the big deal"

There will be so much for you to talk about your head will be spinning around like linda blairs on the exorcist

Frankly, I just have a hard time giving a fair shake to your conspiracy theories pertaining to the Democrats' apparent obsession with undermining the troops. I don't go as far as to say that Bush falsified intelligence (cherry-picked is a better term, anyways) or that the war was illegal (is war ever really "legal" anyways? considering it necessarily violates at least one nation's sovereignty), but a couple things really bother me about Bush's handling of the war.

First of all, he completely disregarded then Secy of State Powell's recommendations about troop levels (pre and post war), even though Powell is a retired 5 (thats right, 5) star general and probably, in that respect, outranks all of Bush's military advisors.

Secondly, prewar claims that Iraq could pay for its own reconstruction (I think that that was Wolfowitz) and that we would be greeted as liberators (Rumsfeld) were almost completely abandoned when the insurgency started. Also, statements like Cheney's "last throes" statement seem to paint an overly rosy picture of everything over there. There needs to be acknowledgement of past mistakes and an adjustment of policy.

I am not advocating massive pullout or "cutting and running;" I am just pleading for a second look at our strategies and policies.

For all of you "... people are dying!! Bring them home!!!" people... We started something, and we have to finish it, however gritty it may get.

It is a war, afterall. People die in war... get used to it.

Axis,

No, it is your war - if you are an American, you don't get to opt out...President Bush is your President, the United States government is your government, and the United States military is your military...given that we are a representative republic, each time a Marine pulls the trigger in Anbar province, you are just as morally responsible for the outcome as the actual Marine.

Given this, you are absolutely morally responsible to ensure that something good comes out of the liberation of Iraq - if anything less than a peaceful, prosperous democracy emerges in Iraq, then you on the hook for the failure...

Canadian,

Kennedy was a man in waaay over his head...as has been pointed out, be blew it in Cuba and Berlin..but he also mucked it up in Vietnam. All Kennedy had going for him was good looks and an excellent speech writing staff.

Mark,

The American people are caught in the middle of a war that a rogue president took them into. Bush wanted to go in and invade in 1999 and prior to that even. The day he took office, he was intend and his mind made up he was going to invade. The first month in office, Cheney met with big oil execs and her had a map of Iraqi oil fields that he had allocated to the american companies. In otherwords, he was going to STEAL the iraqi's oil and give it to the american oil companies to seel and profit from. The invasion was personal and political, it has nothing, nothing to do with protecting the american people.

Americans here are no more morally responsible for it than they are when a gang banger shoots up their neighborhood. They are caught up in the middle.

No good is going to come of this war. The best that will happen is a temporary democracy which will collapse as soon as the troops leave. Its a foreign way of life and the people there have little desire for it. Its been tried before and failed and will fail again.

Bush intends to be there forever. Building 4 huge permanent bases there and the largest embassy on earth. They want iraq to be used as a springboard for the neo-con middle east takeover. Iran, Syria, N. Korea, China, Russia are all on their hit list.

This is a war that you cannot win. Its a war against an ideal, there no enemy in particular.
"The war on Terror" is all but forgotten, which was Afganistan and Bin Laden. Instead you are in the entirely wrong country. Wrong country, wrong fight, wrong cause.

Bush has FAILED on the war on Terror (Bin Laden escaped and forgotten)(Afganistan all but forgotten), has FAILED in Iraq, but he has your complete confidence on winning a war with Iran, which actually has an army, air force and conventional weapons?

America is so far off track and you are all too twisted up in your patriotic flag waving to see and remember the U.S. that was respected and a leader in the fight against peace, tyranny, torture, human rights abuses etc.

All that has rotted away, leaving only the skeleton and your mission has decayed into little more than domination over those other countries that differ from your own.

Sad to see you have fallen so far and there are still those that are willing to follow it right to the bottom.

"No, it is your war - if you are an American, you don't get to opt out...President Bush is your President, the United States government is your government, and the United States military is your military...given that we are a representative republic, each time a Marine pulls the trigger in Anbar province, you are just as morally responsible for the outcome as the actual Marine.

Given this, you are absolutely morally responsible to ensure that something good comes out of the liberation of Iraq - if anything less than a peaceful, prosperous democracy emerges in Iraq, then you on the hook for the failure..."

"Kennedy was a man in waaay over his head...as has been pointed out, be blew it in Cuba and Berlin..but he also mucked it up in Vietnam. All Kennedy had going for him was good looks and an excellent speech writing staff."

-- Ok, and Bush is in good shape in your books Mark? He blew it on 9/11, blew it on Katrina, Blew it in Afganistan, Blew it in Iraq, Blew it on Bin Laden...

At least Kennedy could get through a speech without it being read to him over an earpiece and could actually speech english and not "bushlish"
er...aah...uum...well...thats just the way I talk.

I can honestly say if Kennedy was in the house in 2000, America wouldn't be in the toilet like it is now.

Even daddy bush doesn't have anything good to say about him.

Axis,

Just where do you get your tirades? Is there some conspiracy-theory website that you are quoting from, or do you normally keep your head full of nonsense like that?

I hope to God you are just pretending to be a whacked out leftist...because if you aren't, then the cost of psychiatric care for you is going to be enormous.

And yet, JFK was still able to resist plunging America into a nuclear war with the Soviets, even WITH CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE showing that Cuba had WMD's.

Seriously Mark, why in God's name do you still defend the Worst President in he history of the United States? Why do you defend the most such anti-American policies such as
-an illegal war based on lies, resulting in the deaths of 2200 + of our soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraq citizens and a growing civil war
-torture
-domestic spying on Americans without a court warrant
-fisical irresponsibility causing an $8 trillion dollar deficit that I will be paying off in two years
-cutting veterans' benifits, childcare, education and other programs in favor for the rich

Mark, don't you think it's time to stop being the victim of an abusive relationship and admit that you scrwed up in voting for an abusive, bumbling incompetent president?

Think about it.........................................

Hey Mark,
Axis had some well thought out arguments. I'd like to see your responces to them. Besides attacking Axis for bringing his A game that is.

teenaged,

Do you know the difference between deficit and debt?

Look this up: Debt as a percentage of GDP.

Its time you started learning things your pinko parents never wanted you to know...

Thanks,

This is a well-thought out argument?

The first month in office, Cheney met with big oil execs and her had a map of Iraqi oil fields that he had allocated to the american companies. In otherwords, he was going to STEAL the iraqi's oil and give it to the american oil companies to seel and profit from. The invasion was personal and political, it has nothing, nothing to do with protecting the american people.

Sorry, but to put it kindly, that is paranoid ravings...

pinko parents, Mark?
FYI: my parents are intelligent people and taught me to think for myself, to use some common sense, and understand right from wrong.

My parents are rasing me to be an intelligent, upstanding man, thank you very much.

I don't give a damn about what you have to say about me, but don't you ever bring my parents into one of your Bush appologist rants.

Shove it, Mark.

BTW: care to answer my question on why you still support Bush?

Mark- May I remind you that Kennedy:

Stood up to Kruschev in the Cuban Missile Crisis---after CIA presented photographic evidence, thereby avoiding nuclear war. Bush has mangled the CIA and demoralized it so that it is now largely dysfunctional.

Added to America's prestige by pioneering the space program. Under Bush, we have lost our edge in science and technology and are in denial about global warming, while Bush supporters want intelligent design in the schools.

Came up with the Peace Corps as a way Americans could give back all over the world. He was a citizen of the world, and he and Jackie drew raves when they traveled to Berlin and Paris. While tough on Communism, Kennedy was a diplomat that understood the importance of strategic alliances and international bodies.

Bush, the unilateralist, is greeted world-wide by Anti-American demonstrations, and even staunch allies have deserted us as we thumb our nose at the U.N. and international institutions. "Coalition"forcesare overwhelmingly American.

Always sought the advice of the best and brightest minds of his generation when making decisions. Bush, on the other hand, has clung to the Neocon cabal of Cheney, Rummy and Condi, and his appointments smack of cronyism. He prizes loyalty over competence, which is how we ended up with Michael Brown and the Harriet Miers nomination.

Kennedy's speeches inspired a generation with hope. Bush's speeches inspire the CEO's of Exxon-Mobil, rich recipients of his tax cut largesse, and the right-wing posters on this board.
Nuff said

Mark-

I looked that "debt as perentage of GDP" thing...

In 2004, the $7.4 trillion national debt constituted 62.9 percent of GDP; in 2001 when Bush took office, the debt was 57.3 percent of GDP.

The chart on that page shows that the debt as percent of GDP rose until republicans took control of congress in the mid 90's. Then it dropped for a few years until Bush came into office, where he raised it by more than one per cent a year.

Paranoid ravings Mark? I guess this Associated Press article wasnt on Faux News either huh?

-----------------------

Group: Cheney Task Force Eyed on Iraq Oil
By H. Josef Hebert
Associated Press
July 18, 2003

Vice President Dick Cheney's energy task force appeared to have some interest in early 2001 in Iraq's oil industry, including which foreign companies were pursuing business there, according to documents released Friday by a private watchdog group.

Judicial Watch, a conservative legal group, obtained a batch of task force-related Commerce Department papers that included a detailed map of Iraq's oil fields, terminals and pipelines as well as a list entitled "Foreign Suitors of Iraqi Oilfield Contracts."

The papers also included a detailed map of oil fields and pipelines in Saudi Arabia and in the United Arab Emirates and a list of oil and gas development projects in those two countries.

The papers were dated early March 2001, about two months before the Cheney energy task force completed and announced its report on the administration's energy needs and future energy agenda.

Judicial Watch obtained the papers as part of a lawsuit by it and the Sierra Club to open to the public information used by the task force in developing President Bush's energy plan.

Tom Fitton, the group's president, said he had no way to guess what interest the task force had in the information, but "it shows why it is important that we learn what was going on in the task force."

"Opponents of the war are going to point to the documents as evidence that oil was on the minds of the Bush administration in the run-up to the war in Iraq," said Fitton. "Supporters will say they were only evaluating oil reserves in the Mideast, and the likelihood of future oil production."

The task force report was released in May 2001. In it, a chapter titled "Strengthening Global Alliances" calls the Middle East "central to world oil security" and urges support for initiatives by the region's oil producers to open their energy sectors to foreign investment. The chapter does not mention Iraq, which has the world's second largest oil reserves after Saudi Arabia.

Commerce Department spokesman Trevor Francis said: "It is the responsibility of the Commerce Department to serve as a commercial liaison for U.S. companies doing business around the world, including those that develop and utilize energy resources. The Energy Task Force evaluated regions of the world that are vital to global energy supply. The final report, released in May of 2001, contains maps of key energy-producing regions in the world, including Russia, North America, the Middle East and the Caspian region."

A spokeswoman for the vice president did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment Friday. A two-page document obtained with the map and released by Judicial Watch lists, as of March 2001, companies in 30 countries that had an interest in contracts to help then-President Saddam Hussein develop Iraq's oil wealth.

The involvement of Russia and France has been documented. Also on the list were companies from Canada, Australia, China, Germany, Indonesia, Ireland, India and Mexico. Even Vietnam had interest in a service contract and, according to the paper, was close to signing an agreement in October 1999.

So far nearly 40,000 pages of internal documents from various departments and agencies have been made public related to the Cheney task force's work under the Judicial Watch-Sierra Club lawsuit. The task force itself has refused to turn over any of its own papers.

"No, it is your war - if you are an American, you don't get to opt out...President Bush is your President, the United States government is your government, and the United States military is your military...given that we are a representative republic, each time a Marine pulls the trigger in Anbar province, you are just as morally responsible for the outcome as the actual Marine."

Actually Mark, we all have the right to "opt out." We may all be responsible for the actions of our troops -- but we can mitigate our responsibility by doing the right thing -- do whatever we can to stop the bloodshed and prosecute those who have dragged our country through the mire.

You are also incorrect about "whose war" this is. Just as citizens opposed to the War of 1812 referred to that disaster as "Mr. Madison's War," the disgrace of our Iraq adventure will be known to all the world as George W. Bush's war. Any time a Republican is running for office in the future voters should be reminded of that fact -- loud and often.

"Not in my name," Noonan!

The AP does not prove that there was a plan to steal Iraq's oil. Given how vital oil is to a first world economy, it would be prudent for the government to evaluate current and future oil production, as well as current and future oil needs. If the plan really was to steal Iraq's oil reserves, it is highly unlikely countries such as Jordan and Kuwait would have allowed the US to use their countries as bases for operations against the former Iraqi government. Obviously the intellegence was wrong. Clearly the WMD are not "there." At least they are not where we thought they would be. Perhaps they were moved or perhaps they did not exist. The Democrats voted to authorize this based on the same intellegence the Bush administration had. If they think they are going to weasel out of this by blaming the administration or the Republicans, they only prove why I cannot trust them with national security. Not that I trust the Republicans who will not even secure the borders that much with national security either. I suggest replacing both major political parties.

Frawg, I'm not sure how much economics you've studied, but to look at our economy in terms of what percentage either the debt or the deficit is of our GDP, is an extremely simplistic approach, especially coming out of a recession, in the middle of a war.

Michael Boskin has produced one of the most thorough analyses of federal debt and deficit that I've read anywhere. The study is 69 pages in Adobe format, so it wouldn't let me cut and paste a few pertinent paragraphs, but pages 5 - 10 provide some pretty interesting observations.

What I find really pathetic is how many so called Americans want America and the military to lose the Iraq war. Instead of pulling together and saying lets get this mission accomplished and get out, they want the troops to come home now. I guess many Americans love the idea that terrorists will have a clear agenda to make America their base camp. What Americans have forgot is that the terrorists want you dead. They want your family dead, and they want your friends dead. I think we should give an award to all those Americans out there who want America to lose. The award would be shaped like a coffin with a swatztika. It would remind you that you could be doing the goosestep or speaking Japanese if it wasn't for true Americans.

Many Americans also seem to have forgotten that the former Iraqi government was an active supporter of the same terrorists who have been targeting America for a long time. This does not mean that Saddam was directly involved with the 911 attack.

Uffy

I wish you folks would stop comparing WWII to this Bush-led invasion of Iraq. It is not comparable, period. Read your history books, educate yourself.

Deleted - anti military slanders

Spook,

I have studied economics enough to know that deficit spending is a cause of inflation, which is currently running rampant.

I'm not saying that that is the only, or even the biggest contributor, but I am saying that it does have an impact. I think that the Fed has much more to do with it, though.

Anyways, I looked up the percentages because Mark challenged someone else to. I just met the challenge for that person.

While it is true that the battles being fought in Iraq and the War on Terror are not exactly like WWII, there are some simillarities. The War on Terrorism is being fought around the world. Operations are ongoing in Afghanistan and Iraq and various places around the world. Iraq is one front in this war. Operations, such as those in Afghanistan, don't receive as much attention in the media, as do the operations in Iraq. Comparisions can also be made to Vietnam, however, unlike Vietnam the Islamic Extremist enemy we face in Iraq and elsewhere in the War on Terror pose a direct survival threat ot the USA. It also needs to be understood that the Islamic Extremists are receiving are receiving substantial support from Russia and China. This is a survival threat to America and the western world and needs to be treated as such.

All of this deficit spending being run up by Bush and the Republicans is obviously not healthy for our economy and needs to be stopped.

Frawg, I wasn't challenging what you did, just challenging you to dig a little deeper. You seem to be one of the few left-of-center posters here who is interested in the truth.

I have studied economics enough to know that deficit spending is a cause of inflation, which is currently running rampant.

We've had an increase recently, but I'd hardly call it "running rampant". One of the dynamics you're seeing play out right now is the effect that the increased price of oil (something over which we have no control) has any product made of plastic or vinyl. Besides, how do you explain the fact that during Reagan's massive deficit spending, inflation rates came down - SUBSTANTIALLY. You're not old enough to remember the double diget inflation and 18% mortgage rates under Carter.

"I am just pleading for a second look at our strategies and policies." - Georgia Frawg

I agree. The survival of our civilization is on the line. it is imperative that we get this right.

I would suggest developing some of our own oil and gas resources that are off the coasts of Florida and California, as well as ANWR. I'm not sure how much it would help but it certainly could not hurt. If we could become less dependent on others for our oil needs this would at least give us some leverage to maybe have an effect on the price or at least give us some leverage to negotiate a settlement that is fair to us. Unfortunately some members of Congress keep blocking these common sense measures to tap into some of our own resources. These same people won't allow us build more refineries either.

How laughable that the young'uns are telling me about WW2 history. Since I lived during WW2 and since I remember the sacrifices all Americans made for the war effort. War is war. And until you have fought and sacrificed for your country you will never know the cost of freedom. Both my sons fought for this country. I myself served as a Registered Nurse in the Commissioned Corp. Don't tell me about the VA. I don't know what left wing looney site you have beeng going to, but I can assure you in both our VAs our returning soldiers get the best of care. Don't believe what you read. Go to the VA and volunteer. See for yourself. If you are so worried about the our military go check em out. Go see first hand. I just love the factless rants in here. Yet most of you have NO first hand knowledge of what you post. Pathetic ranting and misinformation is not knowledge!!

uffy,
Thank you for your service, and that of your sons.
I visit the VA regularly; there are friends, old and new there. The treatment is first-rate and despite the fact that they would all rather be somewhere other than a hospital, not one complains. But, that's what our servicemen do; they do their job without complaining.

Spook-

Like I said, deficit spending isn't the only cause. In fact, I blame Alan Greenspan. After the Internet bubble popped, Greenspan dropped interest rates to ridiculously low levels, which spurred inflation and the big gains in the stock markets, as well as the housing bubble.

So, the Fed managed to find a good "quick fix" to the economic downturn in the early 00's, but Bush's tax cuts, while they did help spur spending, and thusly a rise in GDP and a gain in the markets, added to the inflation problem.

Then you have the higher costs of oil, which add to the cost of production almost every industry, which raises the price, which causes inflation.

Then you add in all of the deficit spending that we are currently doing, and you see the high levels of inflation that we have today.

Now that inflation is so bad, Ben Bernanke (Greenspan's successor) has had to raise interest rates more than 16 consecutive times, which has, in turn, ravaged the stock market and may lead to the popping of the supposed "housing bubble."

You know what, I don't know how we got to talking about economics on this thread...

Georgia,

Well, I don't know what you are talking about, but economics ain't it...inflation is just about non-existent...

Salve,

But it remains in your name - you DON'T get to opt out.

So, what are you going to do, Salve? Is hating President Bush really that important to you?

Some folks seem to be gloating that Bush is not very popular right now. This is not a good situation. Even if Al Gore, John Kerry, or Hillary Clinton were president right now and were not very popular I would not be gloating. We are in a fight for our very survival with Islamic Extremists who are bent on destroying our civilizaiton or enslaving it. Should a diplomatic opportunity to resolove the situation present itself, an unpopular president be they a Democrat, Republican, or whatever may have less leverage in such a situation. This means either continued war or a very bad diplomatic solution for America would be more likely. I think we need to re examine some of policies. Constructive criticism will go much farther than personal attacks.

"But it remains in your name - you DON'T get to opt out."

In a way, you are correct to a point. Thats why its important to expose the truth and do proper investigations and impeach bush and hang this mess squarely on his shoulders because hes 110% responsible for all the death and destruction.

Some folks seem to be gloating that Bush is not very popular right now. This is not a good situation. Even if Al Gore, John Kerry, or Hillary Clinton were president right now and were not very popular I would not be gloating. We are in a fight for our very survival with Islamic Extremists who are bent on destroying our civilizaiton or enslaving it.

Not any more, the war on them is over, the military just said that victory is no longer an option and they now just need to try and ride it out.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12920385/site/newsweek

Axis

Interesting article. I have read many simillar articles to this one. The policy of containment may work. Clearly America and its allies seem to lack the political will to take the decisive actions that might break the current stalemate on the Iraqi front. As such, the policy of "containment" amy be our best option. If properly executed we may be able to keep them at bay using this policy. As one of the military official put it, how can we do this without making Iraq a permissive environment for terrorists? If Iraq no longer supports terrorism, as it did under its former government, this would be acceptable to me. I always thought the plan of bringing western style democracy to Iraq was a bit ambitious. That said, I think there is a chance Democracy may work in iraq. i hope and pray that it does. Not all military personnel agree with the premise of this article. My main goal is the defense of America. This policy of containment may be our best option. If they are considering this, it must mean they have somewhat damaged the capability of the terrorists. I do hope they are not deluding themselves.

Mark----Actually Bush is the president that is waaay over his head in Iraq, in Katrina, with the CIA leak, exploding energy prices, unprecedented unpopularity abroad, Abu Ghraib, NSA wiretaps, secret renditions, enormous deficits, burgeoning health care costs......
JFK had a short but decent legacy-----he established the Peace Corp, the Space Program, he stood up for civil rights, and was a strong anti-Communist. He inspired the next generation with his call to public service.
I'm doubtful whether the CIA under Bush would have even found the missiles in Cuba, or whether Bush would have avoided nuclear war in the Cuban Missile Crisis-he might have used his "bring it on " comment that was the recruiting call for potential terrorists across the Middle East to engage in jihad.

Acutally we could impeach Bush for failing to secure the borders or for spending taxpayer money like a drunken sailor. Impeaching him for fighting terrorists is not justified. To imply that it is a "mess" misses the point. We have held our own in Iraq against a very powerful enemy. That is quite an accomplishment. It has been tougher than some thought. The Bush lied diatribes are designed to accomplish two things. 1.) The Democrats know full well he can do nothing without them. The war in Iraq is as much their doing as his. They over saw all of the intellegence from start to finish. In such a closely divided country they are monitoring everything. He can do nothing they don't know about. Now the Bush lied cannards get them off the hook so they don't have to take responsibilty for their actions. Also by saying Bush lied to them, they get to play victim. Americans love their victims. They is a certain leverage in being a victim. From a strictly domestic point of view, this practice while dispicable is cunningly clever. Politiicans on all sides of the aisle are a tricky group. Under ordinary circumstances this might actually be forgiveablem however, not in this situatuion. This little stunt is supplying aid and comfort for Jihadists and it is hindering our abilty to deal with a survival threat to our country. Apparently the Democrats just don't get it. They may not understand the threat. Niscalculations in the war effort are forgiveable, as long as we learn from them. They have happened in all wars. Harming American natinal security the way the people who have perpatrated the Bush lied cannards are less forgiveable.