And the problem is????

Illegals pay their income taxes and rarely ask for any back, they pay social security taxes and never ever benefit.

So even if they are illegal and working for $2 a hour because their employers won't pay more and Americans won't work for below fair pay, if they are paying taxes and contributing their fair share in social security contributions, why shouldn't they benefit from what they have contributed.??

You contribute and get to benefit, why shouldn't they? After all, its american companies that are hiring these people. Its american companies reaching into Mexico and hiring central americans there that will work for less than even mexicans, so they come here instead with a promise of an american job.

You want to take their money, accept their taxes and social security contributions but only you get to benefit from it? They are not asking for welfare, only to get back what they contributed.

If you disagree, then exempt them from having to contribute. They are working for poverty pay as it is, its silly to make them pay for the flour and eggs but deny them a piece of the pie.

"Illegals pay their income taxes and rarely ask for any back, they pay social security taxes and never ever benefit." axis

I'm sure that some do, but I dount that even MOST do. But what is clear is that they ALLLLL are violating our laws by being here illegally. ANd yet you and the senate are going to reward them for it. If you are under the age of 50 you will regret your position later in life.

Mark, let's not forget this part burying in your piece.

"reversing course from the day before on protections for U.S. workers who will face new competition from unskilled immigrant labor under the Senate bill. In addition, senators voted last night to kill an amendment that would have specified that the guest-worker program will not provide visas that would provide a path to citizenship."

44 Republican and 5 democrats votes against this, meaning that the coalition of Democrats and spinelss RINOs voted to give away our country!!!

Vote these SOBs out of office.

So Illegal Immagrants are just allowed to come into our country and get Social Security how is that fair... they already get most of what they want... and I don't think that is fair... they can't not even speak the language they still continue to speak their own language and if we were to go over there you actually think we would still be alive or would we be able to get social Security. I don't think so and if we were to go over there they would sure expect us to learn their lanuage. I don't think this is fair at all.

(sigh) Axis, you are really defending this? really?

That ILLEGAL immigrants be entitled to receive Social Security benefits they have paid into the system while ILLEGALLY using FRADULENT Social Security numbers STOLEN from actual,you know, actual legal citizens of the USA. The fact that this is even being argued by Democrats is just beyond nuts. Everyone knows we will never have enough Social Security funds to take care of, you know, actual real citizens. so much for them "protecting Social security"

Democrats will be hammered over and over on this, I know it and you sure as hell know it. Ads are already being developed like the one against Michigan Democrat Senator, Debbie Stabenow. I do not think they nor President Bush knows the anger the voters have over this issue. The Virginia vote just a few weeks back ought to give everyone a big ole hint what the voters are thinking.

McCain is also now toast with conservative voters.

This is nothing to do with them coming here illegally, as they are already here. I am not condoning that at all. That problem is easily solved by punishing the american companies that are hiring these people for below the prevailing wage. Fine the companies that hire illegals, they stop hiring the illegals and they stop coming as people won't hire them. A $5000 fine for each undocumented employee per violation should entice companies to double and triple check before they hire. As long as companies continue to offer attractive incentives to them, they will keep coming regardless of the law or the fences you build.

That being said, if they contribute to it, just like everyone else, why should they not benefit.? That will encourage people to apply for legal status if they can get that, will it not? Make it manatory that they need to be on track for their green cards before their credit apply to their account.

Or else if you don't believe that they should be eligible at all, that's ok, as I said, exempt them from having to pay SS tax, since they are not eligible to benefit. I don't see how its fair to make them pay and then you get to benefit but they don't.

And paul, I am not talking about the ones that commit fraud and you know it. Many fraudlent SSN's being used don't belong to anyone, they make up a random number on their application and the money goes into a government orphan account. I believe that theres currently over $6 Billion in there that belongs to no one.

Axis do you even know what you are talking about?

1. Rewarding illegals with access to social security and sanctioning employers are two separate and distinct issues which have NOTHING in common.

2. I'm all for sanctions on employers as well, but are you aware of the fact that in some states it is ILLEGAL for an employer to dismiss or take any other action against an employee if he THINKS that the documentation provided is fraudulent. This places the employer in a "damned if you do damned if you don't" position. That's got to be fixed and there has to be a national method of verifying idententy before employers can be sanctioned. BTW: National Identity Verification...that's another issue entirely, and a real political football.

As for the $6 Billion dollars that belongs to "no one" as you say...Plow it into the fund, and we may postpone the SS bankruptcy by about a month.

I think it is wrong and unfair to those that have gone through the correct law abiding process to become a citizen of this country.

Once we start to make excuses of any kind for the illegals on any issue we weaken this great Nation and will regreat it big time in the future.

Laws on this have already proven to mean nothing to our leaders which ticks me off more then I can even put into words. When our leaders do not uphold the laws of this land we are sunk. God help us.

Orphan account? What the hell is that? There are not individual accounts for people. If there are where is my statement saying how my investment is performing?

The orphan account is a account where payments go that cannot be tracked back to a owner. Fake SSN's have remitted SS tax go into it.

Axis,

You take naivete to unimaginable heights. I suppose if I committed a crime (illegally in someone else's sovereign nation) somtime in the past ("they are already here") I should just be absolved? Are you kidding me? The billions we in California spend on educating illegals is a joke. And where does education money come from? Property taxes. Do illegals pay property taxes? No. This is but one example of the burden illegals place on our country. Wake the F*CK up.

By the way, I am a Canadian who gladly immigrated to this great country 15 years ago.

Finally, I could care less if the illegals are brown, black, white or yellow. If they were Scots coming across the border illegally I would feel the EXACT SAME WAY.

Crime? They just ship ya back, not jail you like the moderate Republicans wanted.

If they are a burden, then FIX the problem. Fine or jail these AMERICAN companies that are hiring these people.!! If they are taking your jobs, then fine or jail the people that are giving them the jobs.

Until you get tough on people supplying incentives to illegally come here how can you say you are interested in fixing the problem? These companies LOVE the illegals. They are a slave class willing to work for a fraction that they would have to pay an american to do the same job. These make big business filty rich and they want them to keep coming. Bush is pro-big business so he's certainly not going to cut off their endless flow of cheap labour to fill the fields and factories.

Most of the people sneaking in, have a job before nightfall of the first day they get here.

Heres a question.

Bush have been in office for 5 years and done NOTHING on this issue in that time, hardly even addressing it.

Suddenly now, just 2 months from the primaries with the GOP hurting in the polls you honestly believe hes suddenly seen the light and wants to be tough on immigration reform?

A month after the midterms, win or lose, this topic will be dead and buried as its little more than a campaign bartering tool to win back your support. Bush is for cheap immigrant labor and for big businesses getting rich from it, hes never gonna let that end, but he'll make you think he will until the November elections...

Just like the radical right wooing them again with talk of outlawing abortion and preventing gays from marrying knowing it will make them look better and knowing it will die on the Senate floor. Said that in 2000 and again in 2004, after the election both were dead as a doorknob.

This whole debate is nothing more than window dressing.

"Crime? They just ship ya back,..."

Guess this guy never saw Midnigjt Express.

If we had it Axis and the Democrats way , we now be giving 100% social security to the 19 families of the 9/11 killers.

come to think of it, we now offically have it that way since that is the way they voted.

Actually paul, We would have actually caught or killed bin laden rather than letting him go free and forgetting all about him after 6 months like bush did.

We would also have interogated the co-conspirators without torturing them, so they could be brought to justice. Bush has the 2 known co-conspirators in prison and they can never be brought before court because they were viciously tortured and so the administration must hide them away in a secret prison for the rest of their lives instead.

oh, and we would have actually investigated the 9/11 events instead of blocking all investigations like bush did. 19 men with box cutters and a couple hours of flight experience did not defeat the entire U.S. airline, civil defense and norad system alone unassisted by anyone over here. But bush wants you to believe that what we know is all there is to know. uh huh