The comment by the Monk is another example of the general hatred for the man who, no matter what he does can't get any respect.
While I oppose it as being too lenient, Bush's stance amounts to amnesty for illegals. And yet here is the Monk dismissing him and his plan as decadent, what does he want, engraved invitations to enter the country. The peverty that exists in Latin America is the fault of the oligarcy there and that's where it should be dealt with. Instead the balme is placed on us.
I guess these socialist pro illegals will not be satisfied by anything less than the granting of immediate full citizenship to anyone who shows up at the border.
This attitude demonstrates that they have essentially the same objective as AL Queda, only the method is less violent...convert or die (al Queda)...surrender and be absorbed (the third world socialists).
Posted by: phnxbmed at May 18, 2006 04:29 AM
"In a further sign that Mexico would not take a strong stance . . ."
That, I think, is the important statement.
"The nations who ship their people north to the United States have nothing but contempt for us."
And that is the other half of the statement.
Fox's people are beyond his control. They care nothing for Bush - and even less for Fox. They are probably laughing at the America effort, while making plans for getting around the fence.
If America doesn't immediately ram that smirk down their throats, there's going to be hell to pay later.
Posted by: The Small Town hick at May 18, 2006 05:10 AM
"In a further sign that Mexico would not take a strong stance . . ."
That, I think, is the important statement.
"The nations who ship their people north to the United States have nothing but contempt for us."
And that is the other half of the statement.
Fox's people are beyond his control. They care nothing for Bush - and even less for Fox. They are probably laughing at the America effort, while making plans for getting around the fence.
If America doesn't immediately ram that smirk down their throats, there's going to be hell to pay later.
Posted by: The Small Town hick at May 18, 2006 05:11 AM
There is another dynamic at work here too, and that is the increasing contempt of legislators (both parties), particularly Senators, by their constitents.
I've been following this debate on a number of blogs, and it appears that the 60% or so that comprise the middle-left, center and middle right are coalescing around one basic course of action: implementing a comprehensive plan that includes as it's first and primary goal the sealing of the border as quickly and completely as possible. It's the same principle that applies when you come upon an accident where a victim is bleeding profusely. The first thing you do is stop the bleeding. Next you want to treat the victim for shock, check for broken bones, etc. Eventually you want to try to figure out how the accident happened or how to prevent future accidents. But the FIRST thing you do is STOP THE FRICKIN' BLEEDING!!! As recently as 2 days ago, Seventeen (or 19 -- I've heard both numbers) Republican Senators either did not understand this principle or had not yet gotten the message, including, I'm embarrassed to say, my own Senator, Richard Lugar. Well it appears that by late yesterday the message started to register with at least some of them. This WAPO article this morning had some interesting things to say:
"For the first time since the Senate began debating immigration reform legislation, there is now a bill that deserves support and has a chance of gaining passage," said Colin Hanna, president of the conservative border security group WeNeedAFence.com.
But yesterday's action amplified the grumbling of interest groups including political asylum advocates, gay rights organizations and the American Civil Liberties Union, all of which believe aspects of the bill forsake their causes.
This next paragraph had me rolling on the floor:
The gay rights group Human Rights Campaign said the bill "fails to address the second-class nature of same-sex relationships," while the ACLU has come out strongly against an employment verification system that would require all Americans -- native-born and immigrant -- to submit their names to two huge federal databases to verify their legal status before taking any new job. (emphasis - mine)
And finally, this:
Senate Democrats acknowledged the grumbling, but they said that, for now, they are willing to accept a lot of provisions they do not like, as long as they get the one measure they must have: a chance at citizenship for an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants. (emphasis - mine)
Can you say "GUEST VOTER PROGRAM"?
I don't know whether we're going to see a change of control in either house of Congress this fall. It's too early to tell -- 5-1/2 months is an eternity in politics. But if this issue is not resolved in the next 4 or 5 months, I would fully expect a number of legislators from both parties to be updating their resumes come November 8th, and, IMO, that would be a healthy thing. The one overwhelming message I'm getting from across the blogosphere is that the American people are pissed.
Posted by: Retired Spook at May 18, 2006 08:34 AM
Spook, thanks for the reference...
"as long as they get the one measure they must have: a chance at citizenship for an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants."
We can rephrase that: "...as long as they get the one measure they must have: a chance at gaining the votes of an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants."
They have been trying to get the illegals the vote merely by giving it to them, and now they are trying to get them naturalized so they can benefit from a few million more welfare case voters.
I just wrote to my senator telling him that any party which allows illegals to gain citizenship is guaranteed to lose the votes of the millions of naturalized citizens who actually respected this country and its laws and made sacrifices to gain citizenship by following those laws.
I think the Republicans are fretting about losing the "Hispanic vote" when naturalized Hispanics are totally pissed off at the idea of letting illegals get for free what they worked so hard to attain. And what about the non-Hispanic naturalized citizen vote? How are they going to hold onto those people, or get them into their camp in the first place, if they flip them off by cheapening their efforts?
I'm also guessing that a party which stands up for this country, for its laws, and for maintaining the value of its citizenship by denying it to lawbreakers would gain more than the 12 million votes the Dems might gain by pandering to the illegals.
Posted by: Almiranta at May 18, 2006 03:07 PM
Spook, with your permission, I'd like to start using your Guest Voter Program comment---it's brilliant
Posted by: Almiranta at May 18, 2006 03:08 PM
Spook, with your permission,
Granted, and I'm flattered. It's small payment for all the wisdom I've gleaned from your posts over the last couple years.
Posted by: Retired Spook at May 18, 2006 03:27 PM
Spook,
That is true - the backlash on immigration might end up being a two-edged sword whacking both Republicans and Democrats...right now, out here in the NV-01, the GOP hopeful is running ads all about border security...normally, given that NV-01 is heavily Democrat, this GOPer wouldn't have a snowball's chance in heck...but today? I'm not so sure...
Posted by: Mark Noonan at May 18, 2006 04:44 PM
Geez, you sound so catholic in so many of your posts. As often as you post "as a catholic" we should take your post as your religious viewpoint too. I'm one who surely believes that Jesus would take the same view as you. I also believe that Jesus has a special place favoring just us americans. He likes us better than them border crossin' mexicanos. I'm sure he knows that we have humanity's best intrests at heart.
Posted by: raker13 at May 18, 2006 05:59 PM
The more I think about it the more I think the best way to handle the situation is to take the National Guard that is to be assigned on the border, and send them to check on companies and make sure they are not employing illegals. Once the source of money and jobs are gone, we will see illegals go home or never come in the first place.
Let's put emphasis on illegal hiring. How could enforcing the existing laws be detremental to any party?
Posted by: Ash at May 18, 2006 06:14 PM
Wait a second here. That darn fence is going to cost a fortune. Really. Howzabout we take some N.G. and put them in armored personnel carriers (minimum 1 APC full of guard, armed to the teeth, you never know if they'll come across one of those TERRORISTS.) and plant them in each hamlet, town,and city that's even close to the mexican border. That's gotta cost less than building a 370 mile fence. They could do "random" pullovers, checking ID. I bet we'd catch a zillion of them illegal mexicanos. We "don't" torture, but as a catholic, I bet we can put the fear of God into them.
Posted by: raker13 at May 18, 2006 06:37 PM
No one is going to check on companies to make sure they're not hiring illegals. Company owners are the major source of income for the Republican party. You can bet Bush and his posse won't do anything to upset them...esp. right before the election.
Posted by: Energy girl at May 18, 2006 06:54 PM
Mark, as the veteran of narly eight years of Catholic schooling and a later-in-life realization that I may end up back in the Church, if I can only overcome my reluctance to have mere mortals setting themselves up as agents of God, I have to tell you that the Church has been sliding toward the Left for decades now.
Some of the most radical lefties have been Catholic clergy. I don't know if it is related to the socialist takeover of the Church via Vatican Two, the same coup that made the seminaries sanctuaries for homosexual predators, but it has been a sad and alarming trend. I think this is the main reason so many were so freaked out at the election of a conservative Pope. We are hoping and praying that the Church starts to swing back to its original religious roots, and gives up the political identity it has taken on, particularly in Latin America.
There is hope. The Church in the United States has become less socialistic and politically motivated, and is placing more emphasis on good works done through the love of God, getting back to its roots. But it will take a long time for the tradition of cloaking radical socialists in clerical garb to fade. I think opening up Latin America to basic freedoms will free the people from feeling that the Church is their only ally against repressive governments.
Again, freedom is the answer.
Posted by: Almiranta at May 18, 2006 09:14 PM
energy girl claims "Company owners are the major source of income for the Republican party."
Oh so wrong, e.g. It would help you so much to actually know what you are talking about. OK, it would not help you in the wild-eyed fever swamp of radical liberalism, where you obviously get what you think of as "information", but it would come in handy if you decide to join the real world. So take off that Ranty Rhodes Fan Club button and check it out.
Fact is, the Republican Party, while raising far more than the lefties, got the vast majority of its money from individual contributors, contributing $45.00 or less each.
It was the Dems who depended on the fat cats, gleaning most of its contributions in large sums from the wealthy.
Posted by: Almiranta at May 18, 2006 09:20 PM
Wait a second...she's got a Randi Rhodes Fan Club button? I want one!
By the way, I just put on my brand spanking new...
Al Gore for President 08' bumper sticker. It's cool blue with white lettering. I'm giddy, I'm going to drive around and show it off (really!)
Shhhh...(come here...closer, so you can hear...)thats it, nice and close...whispering...
You know what...If you guys support Hillary, it will tear the dems apart. It will be a cold day in hell when I vote for Hillary, dem or not. I just can't. She'e too much like you...(yechhhh!)
If she's as smart as I know she is, she will not run. It will tear the party up. But, being a catholic, I have faith that the right thing will happen and we will re-elect Al Gore the next great President of the United States of America.
Posted by: raker13 at May 18, 2006 10:42 PM
Energy Girl-
Of course you are right-they would never offend their business base. But that is the best alternative and we lose if we don't keep the pressure on them to do the right thing. Go after the corporate law breakers.
Posted by: Ash at May 18, 2006 11:15 PM
Posted by: Ash at May 18, 2006 11:27 PM
The comment by the Monk is another example of the general hatred for the man who, no matter what he does can't get any respect.
While I oppose it as being too lenient, Bush's stance amounts to amnesty for illegals. And yet here is the Monk dismissing him and his plan as decadent, what does he want, engraved invitations to enter the country. The peverty that exists in Latin America is the fault of the oligarcy there and that's where it should be dealt with. Instead the balme is placed on us.
I guess these socialist pro illegals will not be satisfied by anything less than the granting of immediate full citizenship to anyone who shows up at the border.
This attitude demonstrates that they have essentially the same objective as AL Queda, only the method is less violent...convert or die (al Queda)...surrender and be absorbed (the third world socialists).
"In a further sign that Mexico would not take a strong stance . . ."
That, I think, is the important statement.
"The nations who ship their people north to the United States have nothing but contempt for us."
And that is the other half of the statement.
Fox's people are beyond his control. They care nothing for Bush - and even less for Fox. They are probably laughing at the America effort, while making plans for getting around the fence.
If America doesn't immediately ram that smirk down their throats, there's going to be hell to pay later.
"In a further sign that Mexico would not take a strong stance . . ."
That, I think, is the important statement.
"The nations who ship their people north to the United States have nothing but contempt for us."
And that is the other half of the statement.
Fox's people are beyond his control. They care nothing for Bush - and even less for Fox. They are probably laughing at the America effort, while making plans for getting around the fence.
If America doesn't immediately ram that smirk down their throats, there's going to be hell to pay later.
There is another dynamic at work here too, and that is the increasing contempt of legislators (both parties), particularly Senators, by their constitents.
I've been following this debate on a number of blogs, and it appears that the 60% or so that comprise the middle-left, center and middle right are coalescing around one basic course of action: implementing a comprehensive plan that includes as it's first and primary goal the sealing of the border as quickly and completely as possible. It's the same principle that applies when you come upon an accident where a victim is bleeding profusely. The first thing you do is stop the bleeding. Next you want to treat the victim for shock, check for broken bones, etc. Eventually you want to try to figure out how the accident happened or how to prevent future accidents. But the FIRST thing you do is STOP THE FRICKIN' BLEEDING!!! As recently as 2 days ago, Seventeen (or 19 -- I've heard both numbers) Republican Senators either did not understand this principle or had not yet gotten the message, including, I'm embarrassed to say, my own Senator, Richard Lugar. Well it appears that by late yesterday the message started to register with at least some of them. This WAPO article this morning had some interesting things to say:
This next paragraph had me rolling on the floor:
And finally, this:
Can you say "GUEST VOTER PROGRAM"?
I don't know whether we're going to see a change of control in either house of Congress this fall. It's too early to tell -- 5-1/2 months is an eternity in politics. But if this issue is not resolved in the next 4 or 5 months, I would fully expect a number of legislators from both parties to be updating their resumes come November 8th, and, IMO, that would be a healthy thing. The one overwhelming message I'm getting from across the blogosphere is that the American people are pissed.
Spook, thanks for the reference...
"as long as they get the one measure they must have: a chance at citizenship for an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants."
We can rephrase that: "...as long as they get the one measure they must have: a chance at gaining the votes of an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants."
They have been trying to get the illegals the vote merely by giving it to them, and now they are trying to get them naturalized so they can benefit from a few million more welfare case voters.
I just wrote to my senator telling him that any party which allows illegals to gain citizenship is guaranteed to lose the votes of the millions of naturalized citizens who actually respected this country and its laws and made sacrifices to gain citizenship by following those laws.
I think the Republicans are fretting about losing the "Hispanic vote" when naturalized Hispanics are totally pissed off at the idea of letting illegals get for free what they worked so hard to attain. And what about the non-Hispanic naturalized citizen vote? How are they going to hold onto those people, or get them into their camp in the first place, if they flip them off by cheapening their efforts?
I'm also guessing that a party which stands up for this country, for its laws, and for maintaining the value of its citizenship by denying it to lawbreakers would gain more than the 12 million votes the Dems might gain by pandering to the illegals.
Spook, with your permission, I'd like to start using your Guest Voter Program comment---it's brilliant
Spook, with your permission,
Granted, and I'm flattered. It's small payment for all the wisdom I've gleaned from your posts over the last couple years.
Spook,
That is true - the backlash on immigration might end up being a two-edged sword whacking both Republicans and Democrats...right now, out here in the NV-01, the GOP hopeful is running ads all about border security...normally, given that NV-01 is heavily Democrat, this GOPer wouldn't have a snowball's chance in heck...but today? I'm not so sure...
Geez, you sound so catholic in so many of your posts. As often as you post "as a catholic" we should take your post as your religious viewpoint too. I'm one who surely believes that Jesus would take the same view as you. I also believe that Jesus has a special place favoring just us americans. He likes us better than them border crossin' mexicanos. I'm sure he knows that we have humanity's best intrests at heart.
The more I think about it the more I think the best way to handle the situation is to take the National Guard that is to be assigned on the border, and send them to check on companies and make sure they are not employing illegals. Once the source of money and jobs are gone, we will see illegals go home or never come in the first place.
Let's put emphasis on illegal hiring. How could enforcing the existing laws be detremental to any party?
Wait a second here. That darn fence is going to cost a fortune. Really. Howzabout we take some N.G. and put them in armored personnel carriers (minimum 1 APC full of guard, armed to the teeth, you never know if they'll come across one of those TERRORISTS.) and plant them in each hamlet, town,and city that's even close to the mexican border. That's gotta cost less than building a 370 mile fence. They could do "random" pullovers, checking ID. I bet we'd catch a zillion of them illegal mexicanos. We "don't" torture, but as a catholic, I bet we can put the fear of God into them.
No one is going to check on companies to make sure they're not hiring illegals. Company owners are the major source of income for the Republican party. You can bet Bush and his posse won't do anything to upset them...esp. right before the election.
Mark, as the veteran of narly eight years of Catholic schooling and a later-in-life realization that I may end up back in the Church, if I can only overcome my reluctance to have mere mortals setting themselves up as agents of God, I have to tell you that the Church has been sliding toward the Left for decades now.
Some of the most radical lefties have been Catholic clergy. I don't know if it is related to the socialist takeover of the Church via Vatican Two, the same coup that made the seminaries sanctuaries for homosexual predators, but it has been a sad and alarming trend. I think this is the main reason so many were so freaked out at the election of a conservative Pope. We are hoping and praying that the Church starts to swing back to its original religious roots, and gives up the political identity it has taken on, particularly in Latin America.
There is hope. The Church in the United States has become less socialistic and politically motivated, and is placing more emphasis on good works done through the love of God, getting back to its roots. But it will take a long time for the tradition of cloaking radical socialists in clerical garb to fade. I think opening up Latin America to basic freedoms will free the people from feeling that the Church is their only ally against repressive governments.
Again, freedom is the answer.
energy girl claims "Company owners are the major source of income for the Republican party."
Oh so wrong, e.g. It would help you so much to actually know what you are talking about. OK, it would not help you in the wild-eyed fever swamp of radical liberalism, where you obviously get what you think of as "information", but it would come in handy if you decide to join the real world. So take off that Ranty Rhodes Fan Club button and check it out.
Fact is, the Republican Party, while raising far more than the lefties, got the vast majority of its money from individual contributors, contributing $45.00 or less each.
It was the Dems who depended on the fat cats, gleaning most of its contributions in large sums from the wealthy.
Wait a second...she's got a Randi Rhodes Fan Club button? I want one!
By the way, I just put on my brand spanking new...
Al Gore for President 08' bumper sticker. It's cool blue with white lettering. I'm giddy, I'm going to drive around and show it off (really!)
Shhhh...(come here...closer, so you can hear...)thats it, nice and close...whispering...
You know what...If you guys support Hillary, it will tear the dems apart. It will be a cold day in hell when I vote for Hillary, dem or not. I just can't. She'e too much like you...(yechhhh!)
If she's as smart as I know she is, she will not run. It will tear the party up. But, being a catholic, I have faith that the right thing will happen and we will re-elect Al Gore the next great President of the United States of America.
Energy Girl-
Of course you are right-they would never offend their business base. But that is the best alternative and we lose if we don't keep the pressure on them to do the right thing. Go after the corporate law breakers.
Randi Rhodes rocks!