Dean Esmay, a genuine liberal and someone of no deep religious convictions, has written an article about marriage and family that could come from the most conservative, Christian writer out there. Dean's thesis is:
I think we've made a horrible mistake in telling our children to wait until they've established a complete education and a successful career before getting married and having children.
To back up his idea, Dean points out that a person is usually not established until they are in their late 30's or 40's - if they ever really get established at all (in the sense of being fully financially secure); to wait until you are all set to go only means that you won't have children at all, or you'll have them when you are old and perhaps not flexible enough to deal with the many demands a small child makes upon time and energy. I agree with Dean.
Of course, this makes me a hypocrit: I'm a middle-aged man who has been married just under 7 months and I have no children and will have no children (the Mrs has grown children from a previous marriage and isn't interested in starting afresh - this gives me step-kids and one delightful step-grand daughter, but no actual children of my own). But I agree - and I place into evidence to back Dean up my younger brother - he got married at 19, and had two children by the time he was 22...he's now 34 years old and by the time his youngest is 18, he'll be under 40...well young enough to enjoy a lot of post-children time, as well as being able to look forward not only being deeply involved in his grand children's lives, but very likely in the lives of his great-grand children. That is the sweet life, if you ask me.
We have, I think, made some really horrible sociological mistakes over the past 50 years - making divorce too easy, making marriage come later, putting career at least as important as family, an amazing level of materialism and a huge dose of self-centeredness. The price for all of this has been paid by us - and it took me until I was 40 before I figured out just what a disaster my life had been, and how much time I had wasted looking after myself when I should have been looking after family.
Its all froth, you see? All of this nice house, nice car, vacation in Europe stuff - it is great to have, but not anywhere near as important as having a family to rely on and have reliant upon you. I'll bet my story can be endlessly repeated these days.
At bottom, we've been suckered - in my view, by the Father of Lies - into thinking we can live forever and be our own salvation. It is the original temption - to be as gods, and rule ourselves for ourselves...never realising that we're made for service: service to each other, and service to God. I think the pendulum is swining back towards rationality, and Dean's article - which I recommend you all read - has been mighty encouraging to me.
Posted by Mark Noonan at May 14, 2006 12:08 AM
Trackback Pings
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.blogsforbush.com/mt/president.cgi/7127
Comments
As much as I may like to have a succesful career in my selected field, If I had to wait to be "stable" as far as finances are concerned, Id be 50-60 years old.
That being said, there is no way Im waiting till Im 50 to get married.
But you are right, we have made a gross miscalculation in making self more important than family.
Posted by: David at May 14, 2006 05:41 AM
Mark - I think you would find this book interesting and relevant to your thoughts on the topic of delayed marriage and family. It's a thoughtful analysis of the factors that got us to this state, and in my opinion, right on the money.
Posted by: extramedium at May 14, 2006 12:17 PM
"To be as gods", is the 2000 year old strawman that the Catholic Church has used to keep it's fanatics in line throughout the centuries. The march towrd enlightenment will continue dispite organized religion and because there will always be surfers. Peace
Posted by: steve at May 14, 2006 12:38 PM
I absolutely agree Mark. I was fortunate enough to find a wonderful woman to marry early, when I was 24 and she was 20. We had a child less than a year later. But at the time, I was thinking 'one, that's it'. I wanted the American dream as well - big house, nice cars, lots of vacations.
After some time, I realized that the money, the possessions, were not important. What I wanted was a family, kids. Now my daughter has 2 younger brothers and a brand new baby sister (4 months old now). I am much happier as a father, struggling to raise the family, than a well-off guy w/o a nice family.
What I've found that the 'Father of Lies' does is give you a 'new god', whether it be money, power, sex, whatever. The trick is that this new god, you can never get enough of it. You'll never have enough money, or enough power, to satisfy you, if that's what you make important to you. Same with sex, and many men's (and some women's) addiction to porn.
But ppl are waking up. Even Vladimir Putin is starting to sound like Pope John Paul II on family. Go to American Papist's site, do a search on Putin to get to that entry. It is interesting.
-Lee
Posted by: Lee at May 14, 2006 12:56 PM
extra,
I genuinely appreciate your effort, but reading that description of the book just left me cold...too much of what I've seen and read over the past couple decades. I want a sociological call to arms, not another self-help book.
Posted by: Mark Noonan at May 14, 2006 04:46 PM
Lee,
I'm envious of you - but I'm also learning even at this late a date: in service to my wife, my aged father and to the step-kids as much as I can, I am discovering the true route to human happiness.
Posted by: Mark Noonan at May 14, 2006 04:59 PM
Actually Mark, it doesn't do much more than diagnose the problem and list the factors that got us here. It doesn't really offer any solutions - neither a call to arms nor self help. I do believe you would find great value in the diagnosis - that the media, the online dating scene, confused gender roles, casual sex and more are contributing to the decline of committed relationships. That you could issue a I'd at least suggest thumbing through it next time you go to a book store.
Posted by: extramedium at May 14, 2006 05:12 PM
extra,
All right - I'll take a gander at it.
Posted by: Mark Noonan at May 14, 2006 05:29 PM
Changing the current meme on marriage is not going to be that simple.
Maybe back before WW2, when America was a small and mostly rural nation, the wife stayed home - but no more.
Wives have always worked. In rural areas, the farmer's wife works just as hard as he does. Sure, she stays at home with the kids - but then again, so does he. And the rural life is coming to an end - heck, even the small town is becoming the end of a commuter hub for city workers. A non-working city spouse is a 50s pipe dream. The cost of rent, mortgage, utilities and gas means that anyone below $50,000/year needs to have his wife work. Sure, we might convince Mr. and Mrs. America to live without the amenities - no cable, internet, entertainment system. It should all come about just after The Father of Lies starts getting used to his new snowshoes.
To bring back the "classic" marriage, we are going to have to change the way our society operates. Be careful what you're wishing for, Mark - you may be wishing for Canada.
Posted by: The Small Town hick at May 14, 2006 06:37 PM
Now not all of the small town life is gone there Small Town. My mom has been a "Stay at Home Wife" most of the time, except when she wanted to get out and work now and again. (Fast food, hotels, Fire Department, nothing for too long and not until my brothers and I were older.) Though I will agree I'm not sure how anyone can live in the city, two incomes or no!
Now I'm only 27 but I'm deffinetly feeling the urge to start a family. Both of my younger brothers are married and the youngest already has two kids! I don't want to be just like the uncle I'm named after: over 50, alone, and childless.
I can't really see myself as a 50 year old with a 2 year old kid. How could I keep up?!
Posted by:
Gozer at May 14, 2006 07:51 PM
Sounds like what Mormon leaders have been preaching for the last sixty years.
Posted by: Hans Harper at May 15, 2006 12:50 AM
Gozer,
I am older than you, but my mother, as most mothers of that era, was a stay at home mom. I lived 2 blocks from the elementary school I went to. Some of my favorite memories were of walking home for lunch and my mom having toasted cheese sandwiches and tomato soup waiting for me (with a cold glass of milk). If I would have one wish for todays kids, it is that they could have this experience just once.
Posted by: Ash at May 15, 2006 10:42 AM
Gozer: I can't really see myself as a 50 year old with a 2 year old kid. How could I keep up?
*look of disbelief*
I have to share this story with you. My cousin was 47 when she had her first kids. Because of her age, the doctor put her in the hospital about two weeks before she was due. Well Patti (her real name) had been dyeing her hair for many years since she was prematurely gray. Needless to say she drew a lot of attention in the maternity ward completely gray. Fortunately the twins, yes twins, were healthy. Just a funny little story for you.
Posted by: Ash at May 15, 2006 10:49 AM
Post a comment
As much as I may like to have a succesful career in my selected field, If I had to wait to be "stable" as far as finances are concerned, Id be 50-60 years old.
That being said, there is no way Im waiting till Im 50 to get married.
But you are right, we have made a gross miscalculation in making self more important than family.
Mark - I think you would find this book interesting and relevant to your thoughts on the topic of delayed marriage and family. It's a thoughtful analysis of the factors that got us to this state, and in my opinion, right on the money.
"To be as gods", is the 2000 year old strawman that the Catholic Church has used to keep it's fanatics in line throughout the centuries. The march towrd enlightenment will continue dispite organized religion and because there will always be surfers. Peace
I absolutely agree Mark. I was fortunate enough to find a wonderful woman to marry early, when I was 24 and she was 20. We had a child less than a year later. But at the time, I was thinking 'one, that's it'. I wanted the American dream as well - big house, nice cars, lots of vacations.
After some time, I realized that the money, the possessions, were not important. What I wanted was a family, kids. Now my daughter has 2 younger brothers and a brand new baby sister (4 months old now). I am much happier as a father, struggling to raise the family, than a well-off guy w/o a nice family.
What I've found that the 'Father of Lies' does is give you a 'new god', whether it be money, power, sex, whatever. The trick is that this new god, you can never get enough of it. You'll never have enough money, or enough power, to satisfy you, if that's what you make important to you. Same with sex, and many men's (and some women's) addiction to porn.
But ppl are waking up. Even Vladimir Putin is starting to sound like Pope John Paul II on family. Go to American Papist's site, do a search on Putin to get to that entry. It is interesting.
-Lee
extra,
I genuinely appreciate your effort, but reading that description of the book just left me cold...too much of what I've seen and read over the past couple decades. I want a sociological call to arms, not another self-help book.
Lee,
I'm envious of you - but I'm also learning even at this late a date: in service to my wife, my aged father and to the step-kids as much as I can, I am discovering the true route to human happiness.
Actually Mark, it doesn't do much more than diagnose the problem and list the factors that got us here. It doesn't really offer any solutions - neither a call to arms nor self help. I do believe you would find great value in the diagnosis - that the media, the online dating scene, confused gender roles, casual sex and more are contributing to the decline of committed relationships. That you could issue a I'd at least suggest thumbing through it next time you go to a book store.
extra,
All right - I'll take a gander at it.
Changing the current meme on marriage is not going to be that simple.
Maybe back before WW2, when America was a small and mostly rural nation, the wife stayed home - but no more.
Wives have always worked. In rural areas, the farmer's wife works just as hard as he does. Sure, she stays at home with the kids - but then again, so does he. And the rural life is coming to an end - heck, even the small town is becoming the end of a commuter hub for city workers. A non-working city spouse is a 50s pipe dream. The cost of rent, mortgage, utilities and gas means that anyone below $50,000/year needs to have his wife work. Sure, we might convince Mr. and Mrs. America to live without the amenities - no cable, internet, entertainment system. It should all come about just after The Father of Lies starts getting used to his new snowshoes.
To bring back the "classic" marriage, we are going to have to change the way our society operates. Be careful what you're wishing for, Mark - you may be wishing for Canada.
Now not all of the small town life is gone there Small Town. My mom has been a "Stay at Home Wife" most of the time, except when she wanted to get out and work now and again. (Fast food, hotels, Fire Department, nothing for too long and not until my brothers and I were older.) Though I will agree I'm not sure how anyone can live in the city, two incomes or no!
Now I'm only 27 but I'm deffinetly feeling the urge to start a family. Both of my younger brothers are married and the youngest already has two kids! I don't want to be just like the uncle I'm named after: over 50, alone, and childless.
I can't really see myself as a 50 year old with a 2 year old kid. How could I keep up?!
Sounds like what Mormon leaders have been preaching for the last sixty years.
Gozer,
I am older than you, but my mother, as most mothers of that era, was a stay at home mom. I lived 2 blocks from the elementary school I went to. Some of my favorite memories were of walking home for lunch and my mom having toasted cheese sandwiches and tomato soup waiting for me (with a cold glass of milk). If I would have one wish for todays kids, it is that they could have this experience just once.
Gozer: I can't really see myself as a 50 year old with a 2 year old kid. How could I keep up?
*look of disbelief*
I have to share this story with you. My cousin was 47 when she had her first kids. Because of her age, the doctor put her in the hospital about two weeks before she was due. Well Patti (her real name) had been dyeing her hair for many years since she was prematurely gray. Needless to say she drew a lot of attention in the maternity ward completely gray. Fortunately the twins, yes twins, were healthy. Just a funny little story for you.