In Oct of 03 OBL strongly advised that we infidels vote Kerry, or else. Also the letters coming from mullahs in Iran could well be penned by Dims or posters on this board. At least the message seems the same to me. In fact almot exactly the same message.

But as THE greatest President responded, NO. Eat your heart out Dims.

Matt

It's not just the insurgency and the Democrats who want you out of Iraq. Add to that list, most of the World and me.

I would assume you want our troops out of Iraq at some point, too, unless you believe that keeping 100k+ American troops in Iraq for an indefinite timeframe is a good idea.

I know your response: "We must stay until we complete the mission." Ok, fine, but what is your definition of complete? Please, be specific, tell me the metrics that define completion. Is it: number of days without a suicide bomb? per capita income? unemployment? schools built? government stability measured in the ability to collect taxes? number of people killed per day? amount of oil produced?

You routinely cite all the positive signs that show we are "winning", others routinely cite all the negative signs that show we are "losing". The fact is, both sets of signs are true and accurate, indicative of a very muddled mission.
If you want people to continue to support this endeavor, you need to provide concrete goals, not vague platitudes like "when Iraqis stand up, we'll stand down", or "stay the course".

At this point, if Bush were to come out tomorrow and say "We won, we're bringing the troops home", you would be cheering the loudest, never mind that the day before you were chastising Democrats for wanting the troops home now.

Without a specific set of goals, I can only assume that the mission will be done when a (Republican) administration says it is.

a drawdown is, of course, inevitable. there are really only 2 relevant questions to wit:

1) no timetable, but when does the drawdown commence & in what quantity. related - this will have to be publicly announced, in some fashion, to assure our citizens.

2) what footprint will be permenant bearing in mind we still have forces in many countries.

Murtha keeps making so many demands for getting out of Iraq, that eventually when the U.S. does pull out most of its troops, he can claim credit for it.

Sort of like the Dems' version of the Psychic Hotline.

I highly doubt that Jack Murtha cares about taking credit for it. He's sick of visiting mangled soldiers at Walter Reed, and sick of the way the war was mismanaged by Rumsfeld. He loves the military and hates what has been done to it by the administration.

Steve, you are right

I can only assume that the mission will be done when a (Republican) administration says it is.

"I can't help but notice that both the "insurgency" and the Democrats want us out of Iraq."

that probably sounded clever as you typed it. Can you help noticing this. . .

Ron Paul(R) of Texas
James A. Leach(R) of Iowa
John N. Hostettler(R) of Indiana
Constance A. Morella(R) of Maryland
Amo Houghton (R) of New York
John J. Duncan(R) of Tennessee

all voted against the resolution supporting military action in Iraq. Tell me, are they DEMOCRATS, or are they INSURGENTS?

Newt Gingrich, "It was an enormous mistake for us to try to occupy that country after June of 2003,We have to pull back, and we have to recognize it."
DEMOCRAT OR INSURGENT?

What about the 31% of Americans who call themselves Republicans, but want us out of Iraq. . .DEMOCRATS, OR INSURGENTS?

Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD) has joined in co-sponsoring the Homeward Bound Resolution.

Walter Jones (R-NC) began to speak out in favor of an exit strategy for Iraq.

Rep. Thomas Petri (R-WI)"Continuing American deaths and injuries in Iraq make me ill. I want to reduce the exposure of our troops as fast as possible. Also, I would much prefer to spend American money here at home, and I have raised plenty of questions about our aid programs in Iraq and elsewhere."
DEMOCRAT, OR INSURGENT?

now, what about this. . .

Monday, November 21, 2005
Senate Democrats Continue to Support Iraq War and Guantánamo Prison Camp
By Patrick Martin

Senate Democrats went on record Tuesday to support the war in Iraq and the continued operation of the US concentration camp at Guantánamo Bay. A large majority of the 44 Senate Democrats lined up with the Republican majority and the Bush administration in key amendments to the defense appropriations bill. The Senate session culminated in a bipartisan 98-0 vote to approve the nearly $500 billion budget for the Pentagon.

In the two most critical votes, the Democrats gave their support by a 37 to 6 margin to a Republican amendment tacitly supporting the Bush administration’s policy on the Iraq war; and then voted 30-13 for a Republican amendment explicitly endorsing the use of military tribunals at Guantánamo Bay.

. . .

the reality is that there are republicans for withdrawal and democrats for staying. I think you knew what the facts were, but hey. . .why stick to facts when attacking the left?

It's not just the insurgency and the Democrats who want you out of Iraq. Add to that list, most of the World and me CObserver

Does this mean we aren't winning friends and influencing people with our boorish behavour? Why everyone loves the playground bully don't they?

dav,

Nicely done...though I doubt you'll hear a response.

Keep it up...the TRUTH is so hard for these Bush apologists to hear.

"I can't help but notice that both the "insurgency" and the Democrats want us out of Iraq." - Margolis, you have very little shame & even less integrity after that statement. It's no wonder you never come back after your initial post to back up your crap.

"But as THE greatest President responded, NO. Eat your heart out Dims." - SEW, sip that Kool-aid slowly, lest you spill it all over your bib.

"At this point, if Bush were to come out tomorrow and say "We won, we're bringing the troops home", you would be cheering the loudest, never mind that the day before you were chastising Democrats for wanting the troops home now." - Steve, 100%, absolutely true.

Dav, thanks for the research - predictably, you won't get much of a response from the right.