when I was a special weapons officer (pre-9/11), none of us trusted the cia guys. maybe this will improve that climate.

perhaps FEMA should be absorbed into the north american command since the military is more effective in diasters.

Haven't we heard all this before?

EVERY Bush administration appointee is alleged to be good at modernizing and "shaping up" entrenched bureacracy. Yet so many of them have left without doing anything or worse, increasing bureacractic bumbling. Porter Goss, Tom Ridge, Michael Chertoff, Bernard Kerik (oops, he didn't make it through confirmation), Mike "heckuva job" Brown, John Bolton (I thought he was gonna tear up the UN?) the list goes on...

Frankly, I'm tired of 'feisty tough guys' who are going to get bureacracy in line, I'd just like someone who is competent and interested in incremental changes.

I have to say, I've gotten more comfortable with him since his nomination was announced. He sounds like the kind of guy to resist intimidation by other agencies, and the rank and file in the agency seem to think well of him. And it doesn't appear now that his nomination is likely to rip up the Republican party.

The WH cancelled all of Hayden’s interviews today in response to the domestic phone spying scandal.

Another brilliant Bush decision.

From USA Today:

"The spy agency, with the help of three major telecom firms, has been collecting data on the domestic calls of millions of Americans since shortly after 9/11"

This is scary stuff boys and girls. Another brilliant Bush decision? Well if you consider shooting yourself in the foot brilliant, Barney.

Ash, he is the decider.

koo koo kachoo

Ash,Barney, Just because it's in a news paper doesn't mean it's true. It should be true, but their is no 100 percent certainty in that. So just because it backs up your prejudice, don't bank on it until you have an unbiased verification. Do you have that? If not, don't tout is as though it is true.

Ash,

Looks like NSA does know how many times you have called your sister after all!

Is this just the latest leak of classified information by the liberal left? If it is another leak of classified information, it's time (past time) to start putting people in prison -- with some nice long sentences!

If this program has been ongoing since shortly after 9/11, why is it being disclosed just before the hearings on Gen Hayden? Looks mighty suspicious to me! Can it be the work of some disgruntled NSA employee or a liberal Democrat who doesn't want the CIA and NSA cleaned up and cleaned out? Perhaps the NSA and CIA leakers don't want their leaks to the press stopped!

According to the USA Today article, "This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews. ... it means that the government has detailed records of calls they made — across town or across the country — to family members, co-workers, business contacts and others."

The article specifically states that the program does NOT INVOLVE LISTENING TO OR RECORDING CONVERSATIONS! Isn't actually listening to and recording calls what's illegal and what liberals oppose?

Sounds to me like the same general type of information Internet sites collect on the Internet every time you use it, or like the type of general information collected by credit agencies on your credit history. Sounds like good planning and intelligence work to help identify unusual and potential terrorist activity.

What would be one use for this information? Why, to provide justification to a judge to get the court approval you want before NSA actually listens to the calls. If someone is calling Iran, or the remote mountains of Afghanistan or Pakistan several times a day, I think that is a little suspicious and is a good reason to listen in to what is being said in those calls... but NSA wants to do it right and legal to keep you liberals happy. They need these records to get a judge to approve the actual listening in and recording of the future calls!

Come to think of it, I WOULD like to see a record of calls to and from Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Russ Feingold and other Democratic leaders. Perhaps they have been talking to Jack Abramoff, some illegal fundraisers, or others that would be a little suspicious. Maybe you are right after all. This data base does have some real potential!!! Let's check with Karl Rove and get his opinion.

Too bad we can't just put Osama Bin Laden in charge of the anti-terror program. The liberal Democrats would give him the benefit of the doubt and probably even arrange for a team of ACLU lawyers to defend his actions to protect America!!!

AAR

AAR,
Inconvenient facts, that's all they are. Baloney and Arse don't need no stinkin' facts! Facts just confuse and confound them; their mind is made up and no one is going to tell them otherwise.

But, don't expect the democrats in the Senate to be any more intellectually honest than these two. I guess it's just our cross to bear.

What would be one use for this information?

Assuming your question wasn't rhetorical AAR, here are a few that come to mind:

1) Citizen AAS has been noted to call the Mental Health Hotline 17 times in the last week. Put together with 4 calls to a military surplus store they might assign a spook to tail him for a while.

2) Citize AAD has received 9 calls from his stock broker in the last 2 days. He has called Macy's twice. He has called 6 cruise lines. Hmmm. Must have some extra money. Bet REI would like to know about this.

3) Citizen AAA has called citizen AAC. AAC shops regularly at Victorias Secret so is likely a female. AAC is not AAA's wife. Bet Pat Dobson's Ministry for Life would like to know about it.

I could go on, but I hope this spurs some vague memory in you what it used to be like to be an American before the terrorists attained their objective: Disrupt our way of life (check), alter our government (check), make us turn on each other (check), limit our freedoms (check)

Remember Boon and AARP you are only a misdialed phone call from al quaeda from spending the rest of your days in a gulag.

AAR, you beat me to the punch, and probably said it better than I would have. Rick Moran over at WWNH has basically the same take that you have, including this:

The revelations in today’s USA Today about the massive collection of telephone numbers by the NSA - not eavesdropping on calls, not gathering people’s names or addresses – was leaked solely to discredit General Michael Hayden and derail his nomination for Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. (emphasis - mine)

The news that the NSA has information on billions of phone calls made by US citizens since 9/11 should not surprise anyone who has been following the NSA intercept program closely. Which is why lefties are going absolutely ballistic:

Several months ago Group Intel really put the whole NSA Terrorists Surveillance Program in perspective, echoing much of what said in your comment.

I wonder if Ash and Barney realize just how juvenile they sound when they jump on something like this USA Today article without knowing what they're talking about.

aar, "Sounds to me like the same general type of information Internet sites collect on the Internet every time you use it, or like the type of general information collected by credit agencies on your credit history. "

Do you want the government to know every site you visit and purchase you make? There are privacy laws, and please don’t give me the “I don’t have anything to hide, do you?” crap. If we can’t create a database of gun buyers in the US, don’t invade my privacy.

You know Balony, you are a very scary little man. You don’t use Google do you? You know they give the names to the Chinese government. Don’t be surprised if you find a microphone in your Kung Pao Chicken. Shhhhh, they're coming ...

How is it spook we don't know what we are talking about? I addressed the issue. I realize they are merely collecting a log of calls. But that just as un-American as listening in.

Let me add your name to my warning spook

"You are only a wrong number from al-quaeda from spending hard time at Gitmo."

Shhhhh, they're coming ...

Do you realize how silly and juvenile this makes you look bean boy? Excuse me forensic bean boy.

"I wonder if Ash and Barney realize just how juvenile they sound"

Evidentally not since they sound like a broken record. They dont have a clue of operational necessities that are required to even begin trying to match disparate data in an effort to spot patterns. Too many notes I suspect. (Mozart movie quote) Simple minds only understand simple solutions.

bane, "..You know they give the names to the Chinese government..."

If I lived in the China, but I don't.

Boy are you stupid.

"Looks like NSA does know how many times you have called your sister after all!"

Sorry to rain on your parade Spook, but actually they don't. My telephone company Qwest is the only company with the cajones to stand up to the FSA thugs. The FSA tried everything up to and including blackmail to bring Qwest under tow. (They used threats of not giving Qwest any more gov't contracts) I am so proud of them.

Of course having just said that, I wonder how many other lies the government has told. Maybe they do know after all...........

barney,
how do you know it's only in China? Didn't the Clintons give secrets to the Chinese in exchange for campaign contributions? Maybe China is returning the favor!

"Do you have any control over how creepy you allow yourself to get?"

Rath and bane, according to the AP:

Google Inc. is rebuffing the Bush administration's demand for a peek at what millions of people have been looking up on the Internet's leading search engine — a request that underscores the potential for online databases to become tools for government surveillance.

Mountain View-based Google has refused to comply with a White House subpoena first issued last summer, prompting U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales this week to ask a federal judge in San Jose for an order to hand over the requested records.

The government wants a list all requests entered into Google's search engine during an unspecified single week — a breakdown that could conceivably span tens of millions of queries. In addition, it seeks 1 million randomly selected Web addresses from various Google databases.

Again, boy are you guys stupid.

That's just what they want you to think!

Barney,
Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they really aren’t out to get you.

Arse,
Do you only talk on the phone with other Qwest customers? If they call from an AT&T exchange do you refuse to answer and hide under the bed? I mean, what if citizen AARSE calls citizen ZKWI to discuss "cookie recipes” and citizen XYZ calls Wal-Mart and while you’re doing your job as official greeter you answer the phone? Will we be hearing about this at the Senate hearings on Hayden?

ZootAllure,

You really need to change your nick. You are definitely on the other side of this than FZ ever was and it's offensive. Too bad he's gone, maybe you'd listen to him. BTW it's "Zoot Allures"

Regarding the NSA crapola, just imagine this happening. You call your cleaning lady. She's from South Africa, has family and friends throughout Africa, Asia and the EU, one of them knows someone who knows someone that's being watched as a terror suspect. Guess what? You're now tied to this suspect through the "phone tree." It may be a stretch but you could be detained for questioning. You know what's cool? Since you'd be considered an ememy combatant or similar, you wouldn't have access to your lawyers, your rights and such. Hell you might just disappear. So, you can say you have nothing to hide, but now they're looking at associations. And really, you have no idea who the people you call then call. Sure, it'll never happen. That's why no innocent man ever went to jail or was executed.

When is enough, enough guys?

3more years sez "You really need to change your nick. You are definitely on the other side of this than FZ ever was and it's offensive. Too bad he's gone, maybe you'd listen to him. BTW it's "Zoot Allures"

Awe another poor little lib is offended. If anything offended FZ it was B***S*** which is what your inane and naive strawman scenerio certainly is. As likely to happen as a meteorite landing on your head.

Ever read any books on FZ? I have. Ever even seen him live? I have, 12 times going back to 73. Ever met him so you might speak with authority on his personal beliefs? I havent either. Zappa assailed what he saw as the totalitarian philistinism of the establishment and the vacuous fatuity of many aspects of hippie subculture and I appreciated him for that, the incredible bands he put together and his amazing musicianship .

You know an album title...wow I'm impressed. Gosh thanks I guess your right about everything. With your level of critical thinking you should listen to the first track of Zoot and see your future.

By the way whats YOUR solution monkey boy?

"Do you only talk on the phone with other Qwest customers?"

Bane of liberals existence: The point in question was my conversations with my sister. She is a Qwest customer. Pay attention or we will have to set you back a year!

And I love Arse. It is so British, which I suppose you and the misses watch regularly.

perhaps FEMA should be absorbed into the north american command since the military is more effective in diasters.

It's all about training, and the military trains for contingencies. Civilian/government agencies are too bureaucratic to do the heavy lifting. Especially if they're saturated with libs...