So I punch an old lady in the face. The guy walking across the street calls me an asshole for doing so.

Now it just so happens that the BTK serial killer saw my actions on the local news He also calls me an asshole for punching that old woman in the face.

I happen to not like the guy across the street, so I use this opportunity to compare him to a serial killer. That guy across the street and BTK are saying the same thing! Can you believe it???

"Honestly, except for his closing mumbo-jumbo about everyone getting ready to worship his version of Allah, there isn't the slightest difference between Ahmadinejad's letter and the average speech by Al Gore, Howard Dean or Russ Feingold."

So these five paragraphs are representative of the entire 18-page letter? I don't know, but the part about liberalism being un-civilized and the world flocking toward the almight God sounds like republican talking points to me.

One thing certain, there is no way the left will ever live this down - that out of the mouth of a mudering lunatic came their own words back to haunt them.

The left doesn't live anything down. They just cry they are quoted out of context or that their words were fabricated. Their heads are so far up in the clouds (or elsewhere) they have no idea what their position was yesterday, other than against Bush and conservatives.

Sorry, Mark, must disagree a but. The Left will revel in Mahmoud coming around to their point of view. They do not see him as a murdering lunatic, but as a misunderstood head of state that is just trying to protect his country from the vast evilness of America. Anything bad that Mahmoud and Iran does is a direct result of American transgressions, probably because of those evil Jews in the background.

I have got to stop spending so much time reading those leftard sites.

The problem is that we have no idea what Mahmoud is up to. Is he a madman or just pandering to the Iranian far right? We may have had a better idea if:
-Rove/Libby did not out the covert agent that was gathering intelligence on the Iranian nuclear program and intentions.

-If Bush had appointed a competent director of the CIA that lead the agency instead of the political hack that was more worried about turf and getting his cigar smoked at late night poker parties.

Based on the excerpt you reproduced here Mark, all it proves is that Ahmadinejad has more sense than you and your friends on this blog do.

Like Tom, I would like to see the letter in full before I make any final judgements. Which makes me better than Condi who rejected the communication before she even read it!

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Condoleeza_Rice_admits_she_responded_to_0509.html

The left....They just cry they are quoted out of context or that their words were fabricated.

Oh Lew this is quite rich coming so close on the heels of Rumsfeld getting his ears pinned back for lying.

"Based on the excerpt you reproduced here Mark, all it proves is that Ahmadinejad has more sense than you and your friends on this blog do."

Told ya!

Prove me wrong, teach.

Here, teach, I'll get you started. What is wrong with this statement:

here are prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have not been tried, have no legal representation, their families cannot see them...

Well, those talking points are pretty much what everyone in the whole world thinks about the Bush doctrine and the Iraq war.

You know- when everybody else in the room is wrong and you are right, you might start to think that maybe YOU are actually the one that is wrong.

Wait a minute! What am I thinking? I'm talking about the movement that is convinced that theirs is the struggle of absolute good verses evil, for some even a mission from God himself. How could they possibly be wrong? No need to listen to that rabble - it's just evil Liberal talking points.

Textbook arrogance.

By the way - accusing the those with an opposing view of merely recanting "talking points" is about the most intellectually lazy analysis I read here. It's as good as "I know you are, but what am I?".

According to Robert Spencer at JihadWatch, this letter from Ahmadinejad to President Bush is an invitation to accept Islam...and COULD BE a prelude to an attack:

Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war...When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them...If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya [the tax on non-Muslims specified in Qur’an 9:29]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. (Sahih Muslim 4294)

I think we can all agree that Mahmoud is a bit crazy. But try attacking the *merits* of the argument for a second, not the person presenting the argument. I know it's tough, for you righties.

Teach, here's another one:

"Of course Saddam was a murderous dictator. But the war was not waged to topple him, the announced goal of the war was to find and destroy weapons of mass destruction. He was toppled along the way towards another goal, nevertheless the people of the region are happy about it. I point out that throughout the many years of the … war on Iran Saddam was supported by the West."

See, the Left is extolling what Mahmoud wrote. They love it!

I think Teach surrenders, Ash. He doesn't seem to be able to refute the arguments.

Quite sad, but also quite predictable coming from a sheep such as himself.

Here's one you probably do agree with, Teach:

"According to divine verses, we have all been called upon to worship one God and follow the teachings of divine prophets. To worship a God which is above all powers in the world and can do all He pleases. The Lord which knows that which is hidden and visible, the past and the future, knows what goes on in the Hearts of His servants and records their deeds. The Lord who is the possessor of the heavens and the earth and all universe is His court planning for the universe is done by His hands, and gives His servants the glad tidings of mercy and forgiveness of sins . He is the companion of the oppressed and the enemy of oppressors . He is the Compassionate, the Merciful . He is the recourse of the faithful and guides them towards the light from darkness . He is witness to the actions of His servants , He calls on servants to be faithful and do good deeds, and asks them to stay on the path of righteousness and remain steadfast . Calls on servants to heed His prophets and He is a witness to their deeds. A bad ending belongs only to those who have chosen the life of this world and disobey Him and oppress His servants . And A good and eternal paradise belong to those servants who fear His majesty and do not follow their lascivious selves.
We believe a return to the teachings of the divine prophets is the only road leading to salvations. I have been told that Your Excellency follows the teachings of Jesus (PBUH), and believes in the divine promise of the rule of the righteous on Earth."

See, the Left is extolling what Mahmoud wrote. They love it!

And you teach are avoiding a discussion.

The letter also said that "liberalism" is a dead concept. Does the Right agree with that? We should immediately re-establish full diplomatic relations with Iran. Peace

Gore, Dean the same as Iranian theocrats?? oh brother - eyes rolling!

Mark, if you want a much better comparison with theocrats in Iran, you need only look at the Christian theocrats currently ruling Washington. These American Taliban, like their philosophical bretheren in Tehran, seek to tear down the separation of Church and State, and foist their religious beliefs on others. Make no mistake about it - the radical Christian Right (aka, the Bush-Republican base) seeks ultimately to exercise as much control over the private lives of US citizens as the Mullahs do in Iran. In fact, if the Christian Right could wave a magic wand and have us all subjugated in the same way as the Mullahs, they would.

It is high time for the sane secularist majority in both the US and Iran to overthrow these lame-brained religious bullies before they end up blowing us all sky high. If you loony Christians and Muslims want to kill each other, I say go do it on some other planet - people are trying to live on this one.

Of course, you religious extremists on both sides won't heed this polite request because ultimately you need each other to justify your domestic power grabs! In a desperate attempt to combat rapidly rising popular discontent with their failed religious-based regimes, both the American Taliban in DC and the Mullahs in Tehran seek to paint each other as the new grave Threat... and absurdly label domestic political opponents as somehow allied with the opposing super-villains. Somewhat ironic, no?

Whose the lunatic? The lunatic or the fool who pays to arm him? Aren't we still buying Iranian crude, though their nuclear intentions became clear long ago? And didn't they use this money to acquire dual use tachnology from Russia?
Why don't we buy it instead, along with the people who make it? Take the expertise out of the old Russian empire. Let's lure as many of their weapons experts here, and deprive Russia of the ability to sell such technology, while running the price up so high that we become the sole market for their weapons. At the same time, let's start buying more of their crude, and natural gas products so that they do not feel the need to sell nukes. But we've blown the money trying to establish democracy in Iraq. Ignoring our historic obligation to help the Russians build democracy, and more importanly, build an economy that would afford the Russians the opportunity to secure their nuclear and bilogical weapons materials stockpiles.
That might actually serve to spread constructive free market influence which might loosen the grip of corrupt elements of Russian society holding back its economic expansion. Iran, whatever else you may think of them, whatever corruption there is, are still, in the view of AMERICAN oil execs, worth dealing with, or your petrodollars wouldn't be financing the build up of their military machine.
We're financing both sides of the war on terror so whose the lunatic?
And about the Iranians or their leaders being murderous lunatics, where's the proof? With Saddam, everybody knew where the bodies were buried. However corrupt the Iranian leadership may be, there's no evidence that we'll find mass graves anywhere. At least no greater then the number of dead we've left in our wake in Iraq.
Whose the lunatic? The lunatic or the foll who pays to arm him?

There's no need to argue with you lefties about it - the Iranian's letter is a selection of paranoid ravings, and so are leftwing Democratic talking points...we're just dumbfounded that you lefties here won't take the opportunity to distance yourself from the lunacy...

Teach,

It is flabbergasting - they want us to debate the crazy man...I suppose if they were alive in 1944, they'd be asking us to debate the mental dribblings of Goebbles...you know, he might have a point to make, right?

Geesh!

Mark,

Everytime you use the phrase talking points, you are in effect saying "I know you are but what am I?" (With apologies to whoever first pointed that out here)

Therefore I agree There's no need to argue with you lefties (or tighty righties) about it

From now on let's just go to short cuts:

I know you are but what am I?- Ash

I know you are but what am I?-Noonan

I know you are but what am I?-Ash

I know you are but what am I? blah, blah, blah

Talking points have about as much currency as MSM, environmental whackos, liberturds, etc. It is the last refuge of the non expressive.

It is flabbergasting - they want us to debate the crazy man.

I've got an idea, Mark. Call Ahmadinejad a lunatic. Then put your fingers in your ear and shout at the top of your lungs "la,la,la,la, I can't hear you".

Whoops. Condi already did that.

Mark, I think you're afraid to admit that, in SOME of his points, Mahmoud is right. And that you are wrong.

Otherwise, you would attack his arguments - at least the ones Ash & I have quoted - and not his lunacy (I don't trust him either).

"Then put your fingers in your ear and shout at the top of your lungs "la,la,la,la, I can't hear you"."

Wasn't that the Clinton foreign policy for 8 years?

Oh Lew this is quite rich coming so close on the heels of Rumsfeld getting his ears pinned back for lying.
Posted by: Ash

Ash, if you haven't already seen it, pretty good take on it from none other than Jon Stewart:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/05/10.html#a8233

Quite true, Mark. What point in engaging in debate from Lefties who fail to see that Mahmouds letter contains the same talking points as the Democrats, though, to be honest, Mahmoud was at least nicer about the Christian religion.

*Bangs Head on Wall*

You've gotta explain how this tactic is any different than the reviled Bush/Hitler analogies that are so plentiful, like comparing the Patriot Act to Hitler's "Ermächtigungsgesetz" Enabling Act.

Or comparing Goering's statement that "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

to Ashcroft's statement "To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve."

Goering is describing EXACTLY what Ashcroft is doing.

How about this comparison: "Similar to the Bush administration, the Nazis were funded and ultimately ushered into power by wealthy industrialists looking for government favors in the form of tax breaks, big subsidies, and laws to weaken the rights of workers. When the Reichstag (Germany's Parliament building) was set ablaze in 1933 (probably by Nazis), the Nazis framed their political rivals for it. In the general panic that followed, the German Parliament was purged of all left-wing representatives who might be soft on communists and foreigners, and the few who remained then VOTED to grant Chancellor Hitler dictatorial powers."

Villifying Democrats when they pursue peace because a theocratic wingnut in Iran speaks of peace is the same as villifying Bush because he puts his pants on one leg at a time JUST LIKE HITLER. This kind of nonsense serves no one. Neither is either. Bush is NOT Hitler. Ahmadinejad is NOT liberal.

It's a silly, emotionally charged argument that has no basis in fact. OR DOES IT?!?! (Swell ominous music...)

Ahmadinejad, is a "religionist" like Falwell or as bush claims to be. Mark, your a "religionist" too aren't you? It's all one God,correct? Peace

Oh, and the REAL bottom line here is: you could have photos of Kerry on his knees under Ahmadinejad's toga, but completely cancel your entire argument by quoting Ahmadinejad's statement "a community which Christ and the virtuous of the Earth will one day govern." Leftist moonbats find nothing more abhorrent than being "governed" by Christ and his "prophets/clerics/pastors/cardinals/popes/bishops." Christ's kingdom is not of this world. He repeatedly refused all governmental and political involvment of any kind. Claiming ANY political power in His name spits in His face. This is EXCLUSIVELY the domain of Republicans.

Mark, if howard dean steps down as the head of the DNC, and if zarkawi doesn't want the job, the dems second choice might be this guy from iran.

maf,

Well, his points are all, without exception, wrong...they are just repeated lies; that he is repeating lies that are oft-repeated here in the United States doesn't make them any less lies. Essentially, we've spent the last three years refuting the lies, and I'm not about to go through every lie in his letter.

For those of us wanting to know where Mr. Noonan gets his talking points:

On the May 10 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio program, Rush Limbaugh claimed that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's letter to President Bush contained "Democratic talking points," and "even some liberal Hollywood Jewish people talking point."

Oops. Someones slip is showing.