Watching Fox last night, I saw Susan Estrich whining on and on about how the Republicans destroyed the bill. She kept making one point which I think is indicative of the Left mindset. She kept saying "We can't make these people criminals." Huhhhhhh???

According to Susan, then, it is police who "make" criminals by arresting them. Accoring to this kind of fuzzy non-thinking, committing the act does not make the committer a criminal---it is acknowledging that the law was broken that makes him a criminal.

Gee....I never knew it was so easy. All we have to do is stop arresting people, and the crime rate will go down.

Great analysis Almiranta!

I don't care who "destroyed" the awful bills offered by Frist et. al. I'm just glad the bills were repudiated by the full Senate during cloture votes.

Senators Session and Nelson deserve some praise for having the courage to buck the buddy sysem in the Senate and offer true immigration enforcement bills. I guess Frist, Reid and their gang of backroom buddies felt offended that someone had the temerity to act outside of their circle of influence. Too bad. It's what the Americans want - not some mealy-mouthed, half-hearted immigration "reform," that doesn't actually reform anything, but instead would have legalized all the illegal behavior that brought 11 million or so people into our midst.

Apparently, they've bought into the concept that if you stop arresting people, the illegal immigration issue will go away...

I don't understand what's so hard for Senators Frist, Martinez, Kennedy, Reid and their cronies to understand in this issue.

1) SECURE OUR NATIONAL BORDERS SO THAT WE CAN CONTROL THE FLOW OF PEOPLE INTO AND OUT OF OUR COUNTRY;
2) ENFORCE EXISTING IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION LAWS;
3) PENALIZE THE EMPLOYERS WHO SKIRT AROUND EMPLOYMENT LAWS IN ORDER TO MAXIMIZE THEIR PROFITS AT THE EXPENSE OF THE REST OF US CITIZENS.

These three simple steps would create enough dis-incentives to cause a good portion of the illegal workers who are here simply for the buck with no eye toward citizenship to re-think the value of their presence here in MY country...

Susan and the rest of her whiny moonbat associates should look to the Mexican Constitution to see how they treat immigrants and foreign nationals living in Mexico. If Mexico's policies toward immigration is good enough for them, then it should be good enough for this country as well...

Almiranta,

Excellent point. Typical liberal smoke!

The illegal aliens, immigrants, workers, or whatever PC term liberals want to use broke our laws. They broke our laws and that is a crime -- maybe not a felony, but a crime nonetheless.

Think how much money American can save by eliminating all of our police throughout America, including the border and customs police. And all of those prisons, we won't need them either or the billions of dollars it costs to run them. There will be no criminals because there will be no police to arrest them and make them criminals.

More of the usual creative liberal "thinking" and misleading propaganda... interesting liberal spin, but still warped!

Congress says their "compromise" will require illegal immigrants to "learn" English. What they don't get is that the liberal courts don't care what Congress wants or requires. These courts will still require our local and state governments to establish and maintain duplicate facilities, schools, and other programs in Spanish. They are already doing it all across America and costing the American taxpayers billions and billions of dollars to provide these services in Spanish to the illegal immigrants.

Let's see if Congress is really serious. Let's see them introduce and send to the States for ratification a Constitutional Amendment to...

AMEND THE CONSTITUTION AND MAKE ENGLISH OUR OFFICIAL LANGUAGE!

Call your Congressional members and demand that they do just that. Ask your friends and relatives to do the same. Send an e-mail Fox News, and write letters to the editors of your local papers. Post it to your blog sites!

We have the attention of the American public now! That won't last long, however. I think now is the right time to introduce and pass that Amendment and stop the liberal courts from placing more costs on the American taxpayer's back!

AAR

Mark,

I agree, built that fence!

Let's show American's we are serious about doing something about the security of our borders. If not, then just take down our border control points, fire our border police, and open America to any one who want to come in.

And why check for illegal immigrants, terrorists, or illegal items coming through our airports and ports. Let's close them too since we aren't controlling our southern border. Think of how money we will save. Maybe that will leave enough room in other countries for us when we are pushed and voted out of our own land!

We put up tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of miles of fence along our interstates and roads to keep unwanted livestock off, pedestrians, pets, and animals off our roads, so why are we saying we can't build a 700 mile fence. Ridiculous! The liberals just want us to believe that can't be done. It's just more of their diversionary smoke screens!

We are told we can't first deport the illegal immigrants who are already here. We are told we should make citizens of those millions who are here illegally because we can't do anything about it. We are told it is impossible to build a fence.

If we can't do anything about those who are here, does any rational thinking American think we will be able to stop those millions of illegal immigrants coming across our borders in the future? Absolutely not!!!

If anything, it would only encourage more to come because they see how criminal behavior is rewarded by liberal Americans. We will have even more millions of illegal immigrants crossing our borders any way they can get here!

If it looks like efforts and actions really are moving to do something about our borders and the illegal immigrants, you can count on the liberals doing whatever it takes to stall those efforts. Rather than action, they will want delays to give the issue time to cool down so they can continue with their agenda to bring in the illegals and place them on America's welfare rolls... at the expense of the American taxpayers.

After all, illegal immigrants deserve to be supported by the American taxpayer, placed on Americans welfare, and given free medical care, even if many American's don't have it, can't afford it themselves, and can't afford the extra taxes.

It's the liberal way!!!

AAR

Mark, I have heard some say that a good way to resolve this is to attach the house bill, with its tough enforcement with the senate bill, wch deals with the 12 million already here. Also, to be dropped would be part of the house bill which makes illegals felons and leaves it as it currently is, as a misdemeanor. That way we have the tough border security with the manner of dealing with the people currently here. In this way, President Bush can get the comprehensive bill he is seeking, and both sides get what they want.

"Apparently, they've bought into the concept that if you stop arresting people, the illegal immigration issue will go away..."

Hear no evil, see no evil.

I wish we had more common sense Senators who understand the need to truly secure our borders.

I was listening to a representative of al-sadir on TV saying that the officers at police stations come to offer their help and swear allegiance.
http://www.mikeslotteryBlog.com see http://www.mikesnewsBlog.com for more http://www.mikesAmericanBlog.com cheers dudes.

I did not like the Senate Bill very much. Parts were ok, but most was amnesty. I think what wrekcked passage was Harry Reid's refusal to allow 3 amendments to come up and the protesters waving the Mexicano flags.

Look - I'm all for enforcing our current immigration laws - but $4billion dollars for a fence??

Look how much good thats done here
or here.

And those are just 2 quick examples - I've definitely seen more. I think if we are going to build that fence - it better at least be electrified - hell - we may as well build walls, like Ireal did to keep out Palestinians. Concrete walls 60 ft. high - that would at least make it a challenge. It wouldn't prevent everyone getting through - but what would??

Ford,

RE: "Look - I'm all for enforcing our current immigration laws - but $4 billion dollars for a fence?"

Is that the latest estimated cost? I haven't heard, but that sounds cheap to me!

How much is it worth to secure our borders? Not one cent, let them remain open? One hundred million dollars? One billion dollars? One hundred billion dollars? I say if that's what it takes, then that's what we spend!

And as far as people climbing over it, digging under it, driving vehicles through it, or blowing holes in it... I'm sure you will have some of that, but it will be localized and with our border patrol, cameras, and other surveillance equipment we can quickly drop our agents on them, round them up, and "grant them citizenship"!

I would prefer not to have a wall, but we need a little help and cooperation from the Mexican government. Right now, they are encouraging the illegals to cross the border because it shifts their problem to us. The Mexican government needs to stand up and help their people too -- not just rely on their neighbor to the north. And why can't the Mexican government use some of that oil money to help their poor. American and the world is paying them a nice sum of money for it. The least they can do is spread some of our money back to those who need it.

If we don't stop the illegals from crossing our border, how many more millions will cross into the U.S. within the next 10 years? Another 10 million, 20 million, more? If we make no effort to stop them, it doesn't matter how much amnesty we grant, or how many "guest worker" permits we issue, there will be more crossing illegally... unless we just grant citizenship to anyone who wants it.
Perhaps, we could just make Mexico part of the U.S. and make all of it's citizens Americans. But then, we still haven't solved the problem. More illegals would be crossing our new southern border from Central and South America!!!
Even if the cost is 4 billion dollars, 40 billion dollars, or more, it may be a real bargain. True we are getting cheap labor from the immigrant workers, but how much is it really costing America. How many jobs are they taking that people on welfare could just as easily do and reduce our welfare burden? Are all of them really doing minimum wage work or are many taking good paying construction and other jobs that American citizens could and would do. How many illegal immigrants are actually drawing money from our welfare system - money that our poor may need just as much? How much free medical care are we providing to illegal immigrants? How many Spanish speaking teachers are we hiring to teach their children? How many additional teachers and classrooms are needed to teach their children? How many local governments have been required to establish duplicate Spanish speaking programs? ... All at the American taxpayer's expense.

Once the illegals gain legal status, even more will apply for and qualify for welfare. Once legal, how many will continue to work at the minimum wage jobs? Or will they unionize and march for higher pay and more benefits? If they are here legally, they are even more likely to bring their families at even more cost to the American taxpayer. And what about the expanded government bureaucracy needed to manage them? And these are just some of the costs, but this is already starting to get long, so I'll leave it to you to think of others.

Oh, you say, but they will pay taxes! Not likely, or not very much. Remember, we are allowing them to come to America to do low paid work. Most will pay no taxes, and many will likely qualify for some tax rebate program... in addition to qualifying for welfare, free medical, and who knows what other costs.

And on top of the above costs... the illegals will continue to pour across our border in a catch 22 with even more and growing costs beyond that!

Ignoring the problem and choosing to do nothing to stop it is the worst thing we can do! In the end, 4 billion dollars, 40 billion dollars, or more may be a good bargain indeed!

AAR

What's interesting about this blog is that it has the unusual insight into the crafty legislative maneuver orchestrated by Sen Sessions and Nelson but then falls into the red meat rhetoric that liberals killed this bill because of the fence.

Google Chuck Hagel today and see his comments regarding the fence. he called it goofy -while offering his immigration proposal that sets a threshold of five years to differentiate between those who would be turned away and those who get amnesty. Talk about goofy - how exactly does an illegal immigrant PROVE he's been here fve years if he's used fake documnets to get work?

My point: the liberals had nothing to do with this amnesty bill going down. Sessions blocked it with a brilliant legislative action. then ALL 55 republican senators voted against cloture - they killed their own baby - what will Dr. Dobson say?

I do not have a problem with LEGAL immigrants. I can appreciate that any respectable citizen of Mexico would want to leave a country that doesn't value their native born citizens, encouraging them to invade another country in order to send more money back to Mexico.

My fear is that the mis-handling of this issue by you politicians who are more interested in protecting your party than arriving at a far sighted solution which will preserve our nation will cause a civil war, starting at the school levels and then spreading. The decisions you make will be more far-reaching than your tenure in public office. Think along those lines.

LaVone (Registered Independant Voter)
Ky

This was Harry Reid's take on why the "compromise" failed...

Democrats all voted to end debate on the Senate's bipartisan compromise, but Republicans wouldn't allow it because several GOP lawmakers wanted to offer amendments. As lawmakers headed to the airport, Democrats were launching a new argument: President Bush and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., didn't push hard enough to get the GOP to go along with a proposal to let most undocumented immigrants get legal status.
"Even though we supported two bipartisan bills that were tough on enforcement and included smart comprehensive reforms, Bush Republicans were unable or unwilling to support the bipartisan compromise that the president and Senator Frist said they supported yesterday," Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada said.

Legitimate or blowing smoke up one's skirt? You be the judge...

I was speaking with a Peruvian friend today about hte Mexican uprising, the desire to overthrow at least part of our government to take over the mythical "Aztlan states", etc. He made such a good point, I want to pass it on.

He said that people do not just come to this country, they come to our SYSTEM---and then some try to destroy the very system that makes this country so desirable in the first place.

But if law enforcment is overwhelmed and then incapacitated by illegal acts by immigrants, if the medical system is made unworkable by those abusing it, if the school system is co-opted by those who insist on using it but having their classes in Spanish, if the system is broken down by those who rushed here to take advantage of it, we are fools to let them do it.

BTW,he is here legally, speaks English, and when he had to return to Peru for a year because INS changed the way it enforced some rules and a friend suggested he just fly into Mexico City and walk across the border because if people thought he was a Mexican they would not bother him, his reply was "I did not work so hard to come to your country to break its rules."

The cost of building a 2,000 mile fence similar to what was built in San Diego will be much more than $4 billion.

The San Diego 14 mile fence has so far cost $70 million. It was built using surplus corregated steel panels recycled from the Viet Nam war. The land and border roads upon which it passes were purchased and built long ago.

A similar fence across 2,000 miles of rugged desert and mountain terrain will no doubt far exceed the $5 million per mile cost. In the first place, surplus steel panels to cover 2,000 miles are not available. Construction crews and logistical support will need to be imported to the sparsely populated border. Engineering and environmental impact costs for the rugged wilderness areas will far exceed the minimal amount required for San Diego.

My guess is that at least $20 billion and perhaps $40 billion for such a fence is not unreasonable.
I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be built, just pointing out that the $4 billion cost mentioned above is not likely.

A second obstacle to a wilderness fence will be the enviromental impact. From what I've read, our southern border cuts across migratory paths of desert wildlife, including jaguars, javalina, and proghorn antelope. This was not a concern for the urban San Diego - Tiajuana fence.

It's certainly possible to build a border fence. We just need to understand ahead of time what such a fence will cost.

Building the fence is the best way to combat the massive amounts of illegal immigrants cross the mexico boarder. The cost of the fence is obviously a concern. Building a fence would cost billions of dollars. How much money would we be saving once the fence is built tho. Its the old adage it takes money to make money. If we spend the money to build the fence in the long run we will be saving the "american people" tax money. The fence is the most logical proposal.