Anthony_2002,
Perhaps you need to reread or re-interpret my original comments. I'm not painting all illegals with a broad brush. By stating, “there are some among the illegals here that don't wish to become part of our society," I mean to specifically point those individuals out. They are here for a variety of reasons, but among them, noticeably is that they are NOT here to become American citizens. They come to work, to enjoy our material way of life, and to send money back to their families in Mexico or elsewhere. When they get sick, they get free medical care (free to them, that is). When they knock a girl up, they get WIC, Welfare, and other social services to which they are not entitled. They are sucking off the teat of the American capitalist system. Mexico's economy wouldn't and couldn't put up with the strain...
Even though their actions piss me off, because they've walked, crawled, swam, or were transported across our borders without regard to our immigration policy, the actions of the employers here in the US is what aggravates me the most. They pay the illegals lower wages than they would pay a US citizen. They often offer little or no benefits, such as vacation, or medical insurance. They often pay these workers by the day or "under the table," meaning they aren't contributing to Social Security, paying Income Tax, Workman's Compensation, etc. And who do you suppose pockets the difference? That's right - the shamelessly greedy American employer. Due to their actions, they are screwing the US Government, their own citizens, and the illegal laborer all in one fell swoop. Is this honest capitalism? I think not!!
I acknowledge that there are millions of people who have come to this country with the intention to become citizens someday. They are playing by the rules, and I applaud them for that. I welcome them with open arms, in fact.
The only way I can try to get people to understand my anger is to use an analogy of a traffic jam on a major interstate highway. There we are, hundreds and thousands of us, sitting in line, moving slowly, if at all. But we're all committed to the process. We're all resigned to our fates, understanding that, eventually, we'll get to where we want to be. There is always - I repeat - ALWAYS some S.O.B. who thinks that they are better than the rest of us, and not subject to the traffic jam. What do they do? They ride into the emergency lane, and pass us all. That's what the illegals are doing, essentially. Try to remember how you feel when you see that jerk in the emergency lane as you sit idling in traffic. There's anger and a hope that maybe, just maybe, a traffic cop will be standing by, ready to give them a ticket. But in this case, the traffic cop is nowhere to be seen, as the Border Patrol is undermanned and overwhelmed. The same can be said for Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). Homeland Security? What Homeland Security?
In response to your inquiry as to what would constitute "definitive" ways that the government could show that it's ready, willing and able to control the border, I'll toss out a few no-brainers for you.
They could erect a fence to stop the helter-skelter of people scrambling into this country by the thousands each week. They could go after the scurrilous employers who exploit the illegals and pocket obscene profits that would otherwise be a cost of doing business. The government could provide more detention facilities and use them as they repatriate illegal entrants into this country in an ongoing and serious manner. Your leap of faith and speculations about where this logic might lead are not germaine to this discussion. All I'm asking is that are government stop turning a blind eye to an invasion of unwelcomed non-citizens and secure our borders. I'm not asking that immigration be shut off, only that the rules be enforced for EVERYBODY - not just for those who play by them. There are those that jump ahead of their associates because they don't want to play by the rules and obey our laws regarding legal prescence in our country...
As for those who have families in this country that have developed since they arrived here, it doesn't change the fact that they are here illegally. And the "anchor baby" concept is a lure to many, many foreigners who believe that it's a "Free Ride" ticket to citizenship. An "anchor baby," for those who might not know, is a baby that is born in the US of a foreign mother. Oftentimes, women close to the birthing stage, come to the US specifically to get medical care (free to them, again), and knowing that their baby is a citizen by birth, according to current law. Then, they piggyback their citizenship rights to the baby's rights, often bringing their extended families along with them. Too bad about their families. They should go back to wherever the illegals came from in the first instance and apply for re-entry following the same rules that everybody else is supposed to follow...
I can't believe I'm even having this discussion with people about how we should somehow be feeling sorry for these people and ignore/forgive the fact that they broke the law to get here. They have chosen to break the law by arriving here sometimes in the dead of night. Given that they had little or no regard for that law, why should I assume that they have any regard for any other law that is on the books in this country?
I am NOT advocating a forceful deportation of masses of illegal workers. Neither am I asking that we simply change their status to "legal" by some legislative sleight of hand, which is currently the approach being taken by the US Senate. I believe we should tighten our borders to ensure that NO ONE - Mexican, Guatamalan, Croatian, Turkish, Russian, Japanese, etc. can just hop a fence or swim a shallow river and be "in the promised land," without going through proper procedure. That procedure involves medical and criminal checks, and an inquiry as to how this individual intends to make their way in society. It also involves mandatory ENGLISH-ONLY instruction and opportunities.
In the past, all other immigrants from every conceivable country on this earth were subjected to these procedures. They eventually assimilated. But again, I'm speaking here of those who don't have citizenship as a final objective. They're just here for quick cash and to enjoy the benefits of our way of life. They will drain our economy of much more than they contribute if we allow them to.
In case no one has mentioned it before, we ALREADY HAVE a Guest Worker program in place. The illegal workers simply don't care to stand in line with the rest of their comrades. They are willing to break the law to jump ahead of them. Then, they play our various social support systems to snatch and grab as much as they can while they can. And it's all at the expense of those who work and pay into these systems. And as if to rub salt in our wounds, they refuse to even learn English! I've had enough.
I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!!
Yes it is time, Matt. Have you seen the immigration reform sugfgested by Reid back in 1993? Not exactly his position today, now that a Republican is in office. Culture of hypocrisy...
After what this nation witnessed last week during the various protests against immigration reform, I'm not surprised that Americans of all backgrounds are reacting by stiffening our resistance to any sort of Guest Worker/Amnesty component of the various bills under consideration. When the American flag is snatched and burned and the Mexican flag raised and waved with pride, what other message should Americans get except that there are some among the illegals here that don't wish to become part of our society. They insist - nay demand - that we acquiesce to their way of life rather than they conform to the society in which they've illegally placed themselves. As an economic system, Mexico must really suck, because they're coming over in droves with no end in sight...
For my part, I'm calling my Senators daily to reinforce my position that Guest Worker = Amnesty and it's simply not acceptable. When the government can show in definitive ways that they are ready, willing, and able to control our sovereign borders, then we can BEGIN to discuss the possibility of a Guest Worker program. That's going to take a few years at best. Until then - ENFORCEMENT OF EXISTING LAWS IS THE ONLY PROPER COURSE OF ACTION.
The State of Georgia recently passed what will be (at least on paper) the toughest immigration reform legislation in the country. The state has had to act because this Administration and Congress has simply turned a blind eye to the growing problem of illegal immigration. They have turned a deaf ear to the cries of citizens like myself who are shocked to see the quality of our communities crashing down around us.
My sincerest gratitude and pride goes out to the Minuteman Project, whose members are showing the true patriotism by grabbing the bull by the horns and acting where action is desperately needed. The President can call them "vigilantes" all he wants to. On this issue, the President is DEAD WRONG! Between the Republicrats hunkering down and shaking in their boots over having to act against corporate interests that benefit from the status quo, and the Demublicans falling all over themselves to pander to what they consider to be a potential voting bloc - I'm sick to my stomach over this.
Thus, the current gridlock is not only to be expected, it's about time the true conservatives hold the Senate's feet to the fire. We have drawn a line in the sand, and woe be to the Senator who dares to cross it. I have continually promised my Senators (neither, unfortunately up for re-election this year) that they can count on my voting against them if they cave in on the Guest Worker/Amnesty issue.
Go Minutemen!!
The dems blocked an amendment that would have made felons ineligible for citizenship. So, kidnappers, burglars, coyotes, etc. are so important to the democratic future votes, they will endanger our security. Disgusting. They lost me as a campassionate person sympathetic to the cause. John McCain should know better than to co-sponsor anything with Ted Kennedy. Criminal aliens. They are signing them up to vote already in Arizona, and they aren't even citizens.
"(neither, unfortunately up for re-election this year) that they can count on my voting against them if they cave in on the Guest Worker/Amnesty issue."
I must agree with you on this dbogdan, although I am less enamored with the Minutemen. Promise me you won't forget if your Senators cave, that you will remember in 4 years when they are up for election.
I honestly believe that many pols depend on our shortsightedness. They depend there will be another emotional and serious issue in the future that will take your mind off this one.
Arrest a few CEO's or construction company owners and the undocumented worker problem would resolve itself. Peace
Why don't we just build a bunch of crappy prisons, and then while working to expand our legal immigration capacity, we both jail and expell illegals and by creating a harsh penalty for being in the country illegaly begin to force them to shift to legal immigration, garnering taxes and security, along with making them begin the process of naturalizing. Also declaring English as the official US language and making life generally harder for those that aren't naturally born, would help to encourage the right kind of immigration. We may be able to outway the benefits of working here with some negatives that aren't necessarily harmful but that would make life difficult.
OMG! Thank the Mexicans for bringing me and Steve together! :)
Seriously though, I'm all for making English the official language of the US, and for tougher penalities for illegals here in the US. As I've stated time and again the whole system and every part around it needs to be fixed in some way shape or form.
Put up barriers to slow down incoming traffic.
Allow police to arrest and detain those illegals we do find in America.
Deport who you can, when you can.
Penalize any company who knowingly hires illegals. These should be fines that HURT and not just slaps on the wrist.
Make the immigration processes more accessable and easier to start so that more folks can come in legally.
Heck, all else fails annex Mexico. That way they're all Americans and we can just attack the whole problem at once. :p (Yes, I'm being silly)
Ash,
I'll tell you what I tell my Senators: On this issue, I will not forget. I can't forget, because every day, I find myself inundated by non-English speaking people in the grocery stores, the fast food franchises, the banks, and everywhere else I go. So believe me, I won't forget how this issue falls out. I've been howling about illegal immigration since 2001, right after 911 because of the security risks exposed by our open borders.
Until recently, all I got in response from my Senators' staff was a poo-poohing attitude. Now, since the heat's been turned up, the Senators' staff listen much more attentively, and seem genuinely interested in hearing my concerns. But then again, I recognize that they are paid to do that...
As concerned Americans, we need to continue to hold the Senate's feet to the fire on this issue, not giving up until we get exactly what we want. And that does not include amnesty or Guest Workers!!!
And, yes, I'm willing to pay $5.00 for a head of lettuce in order to accomplish our objectives on this issue...
I don't believe we'd be paying $5 a head of lettuce anyway but I'm with you dbogdan. Here in So Cal it's especially close to home to see all of these illegals running around wanting all the rights of a citizen with none of the responsibilities.
Become citizens, earn your keep, then we'll talk.
And I'm with you gozer. Strange bedfellows, no?
*Chuckles*
Yeppers. Then again, I think this is what should be happening on important issues. We should be able to reach a concensous and work things out. We may differ on details but I think there are some things we should be able to agree on.
Yes it is time, Matt. Have you seen the immigration reform sugfgested by Reid back in 1993? Not exactly his position today, now that a Republican is in office. Culture of hypocrisy...
Posted by: keefer
Keefer, have you read it, or are you just parroting what Rush said this very afternoon? Yes, I heard the same thing, and I went to Drudge to read it, but guess what, it is not there any more. I wonder why? I SUGGEST that you do a little research first.
When the boat is sinking you stop the leak BEFORE you start bailing.
Let's seal the borders FIRST, then deal with the illegals.
I went to Drudge to read it, but guess what, it is not there any more. I wonder why? I SUGGEST that you do a little research first.
BOLDING MINE
Barney, you want to know how rather dumb you look about right now ( more than you usually do ?) use the damn SEARCH FEATURE on Drudge and do you own "little" research.
this country has more demand for workers than citizens can, or will, satisify.
seal the border, by all means, of course.
then, establish a guest worker program thru our embassies which requires registration, ID, background cks, tax reporting, & expiration.
ideological eye-blinders may "play" to the base, but it neither diminishes nor manages this influx or the demand.
also, the hispanic vote is ever more important to maintain majority & the business lobby $$$ will shift to the dems.
these perceived assults on effective immigration control & management, combined w the perceived erosion of regulated abortion will IMHO return the GOP to minority status in 2 federal voting cycles.
if I as a dem candidate, I'd successfully pound y'all on hispanic racism, erosion of womens' rights, & corruption & laugh at the red-herring anti-gay ads were run.
Bogdan,
“there are some among the illegals here that don't wish to become part of our society”
Well I guess such people exist both among illegals and even legal citizens (Timothy Mcveigh, Terry Nicols to name but a few). Yet, it does not mean that we should judge all American society by the criminal actions of few of its members. Why it is plausible to judge illegal Mexicans by the actions of few irresponsible individuals?!
You claim that “When the government can show in definitive ways that they are ready, willing, and able to control our sovereign borders, then we can BEGIN to discuss the possibility of a Guest Worker program”
What will constitute this “definite ways”?! When there would not be a single illegal immigrant around?! What is next?! Should we say that “definite ways” in controlling crime is when the Government assures that no crime is committed in the USA?! And only when this is shown one can discuss effective measures that should be taken to resolve the problem of crime?! I guess none of the Government will ever be able to reach these unrealistic aims, and prudent government is trying resolve this problem now, not in some distant and unrealistic future.
There are many Mexicans who are in the USA illegally, who have families, children, and who have been working at the country for several years. It is not realistic, neither it is practically possible to resolve this problem by deporting all of them. Neither it is possible to control efficiently the tide of Mexican workers, who are coming to the USA as there is a huge demand in several sectors of the industries on low skilled and semi skilled workers.
In my opinion “guess worker program “ is the only possible and plausible solution of this problem.
Bogdan,
“there are some among the illegals here that don't wish to become part of our society”
Well I guess such people exist both among illegals and legal citizens (Timothy Mcveigh, Terry Nicols to name but a few). Yet, it does not mean that we should judge all American society by the criminal actions of few of its members. Why it is plausible to judge illegal Mexicans by the actions of few irresponsible individuals?!
You claim that “When the government can show in definitive ways that they are ready, willing, and able to control our sovereign borders, then we can BEGIN to discuss the possibility of a Guest Worker program”
What will constitute this “definite ways”?! When there would not be a single illegal immigrant around?! What is next?! Should we say that “definite ways” in controlling crime is when the Government assures that no crime is committed in the USA?! And only when this is shown one can discuss effective measures that should be taken to resolve the problem of crime?! I guess none of the Government will ever be able to reach these unrealistic aims, and prudent government is trying resolve this problem now, not in some distant future.
There are many Mexicans who are in the USA illegally, who have families, children, and who have been working at the country for several years. It is not realistic, neither it is practically possible to resolve this problem by deporting all of them. Neither it is possible to control efficiently the tide of Mexican workers, who are coming to the USA as there is a huge demand in several sectors of the industries on low skilled and semi skilled workers.
In my opinion “guess worker program “ is the only possible and plausible solution of this huge problem.
Anthony_2002,
Perhaps you need to reread or re-interpret my original comments. I'm not painting all illegals with a broad brush. By stating, “there are some among the illegals here that don't wish to become part of our society," I mean to specifically point those individuals out. They are here for a variety of reasons, but among them, noticeably is that they are NOT here to become American citizens. They come to work, to enjoy our material way of life, and to send money back to their families in Mexico or elsewhere. When they get sick, they get free medical care (free to them, that is). When they knock a girl up, they get WIC, Welfare, and other social services to which they are not entitled. They are sucking off the teat of the American capitalist system. Mexico's economy wouldn't and couldn't put up with the strain...
Even though their actions piss me off, because they've walked, crawled, swam, or were transported across our borders without regard to our immigration policy, the actions of the employers here in the US is what aggravates me the most. They pay the illegals lower wages than they would pay a US citizen. They often offer little or no benefits, such as vacation, or medical insurance. They often pay these workers by the day or "under the table," meaning they aren't contributing to Social Security, paying Income Tax, Workman's Compensation, etc. And who do you suppose pockets the difference? That's right - the shamelessly greedy American employer. Due to their actions, they are screwing the US Government, their own citizens, and the illegal laborer all in one fell swoop. Is this honest capitalism? I think not!!
I acknowledge that there are millions of people who have come to this country with the intention to become citizens someday. They are playing by the rules, and I applaud them for that. I welcome them with open arms, in fact.
The only way I can try to get people to understand my anger is to use an analogy of a traffic jam on a major interstate highway. There we are, hundreds and thousands of us, sitting in line, moving slowly, if at all. But we're all committed to the process. We're all resigned to our fates, understanding that, eventually, we'll get to where we want to be. There is always - I repeat - ALWAYS some S.O.B. who thinks that they are better than the rest of us, and not subject to the traffic jam. What do they do? They ride into the emergency lane, and pass us all. That's what the illegals are doing, essentially. Try to remember how you feel when you see that jerk in the emergency lane as you sit idling in traffic. There's anger and a hope that maybe, just maybe, a traffic cop will be standing by, ready to give them a ticket. But in this case, the traffic cop is nowhere to be seen, as the Border Patrol is undermanned and overwhelmed. The same can be said for Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). Homeland Security? What Homeland Security?
In response to your inquiry as to what would constitute "definitive" ways that the government could show that it's ready, willing and able to control the border, I'll toss out a few no-brainers for you.
They could erect a fence to stop the helter-skelter of people scrambling into this country by the thousands each week. They could go after the scurrilous employers who exploit the illegals and pocket obscene profits that would otherwise be a cost of doing business. The government could provide more detention facilities and use them as they repatriate illegal entrants into this country in an ongoing and serious manner. Your leap of faith and speculations about where this logic might lead are not germaine to this discussion. All I'm asking is that are government stop turning a blind eye to an invasion of unwelcomed non-citizens and secure our borders. I'm not asking that immigration be shut off, only that the rules be enforced for EVERYBODY - not just for those who play by them. There are those that jump ahead of their associates because they don't want to play by the rules and obey our laws regarding legal prescence in our country...
As for those who have families in this country that have developed since they arrived here, it doesn't change the fact that they are here illegally. And the "anchor baby" concept is a lure to many, many foreigners who believe that it's a "Free Ride" ticket to citizenship. An "anchor baby," for those who might not know, is a baby that is born in the US of a foreign mother. Oftentimes, women close to the birthing stage, come to the US specifically to get medical care (free to them, again), and knowing that their baby is a citizen by birth, according to current law. Then, they piggyback their citizenship rights to the baby's rights, often bringing their extended families along with them. Too bad about their families. They should go back to wherever the illegals came from in the first instance and apply for re-entry following the same rules that everybody else is supposed to follow...
I can't believe I'm even having this discussion with people about how we should somehow be feeling sorry for these people and ignore/forgive the fact that they broke the law to get here. They have chosen to break the law by arriving here sometimes in the dead of night. Given that they had little or no regard for that law, why should I assume that they have any regard for any other law that is on the books in this country?
I am NOT advocating a forceful deportation of masses of illegal workers. Neither am I asking that we simply change their status to "legal" by some legislative sleight of hand, which is currently the approach being taken by the US Senate. I believe we should tighten our borders to ensure that NO ONE - Mexican, Guatamalan, Croatian, Turkish, Russian, Japanese, etc. can just hop a fence or swim a shallow river and be "in the promised land," without going through proper procedure. That procedure involves medical and criminal checks, and an inquiry as to how this individual intends to make their way in society. It also involves mandatory ENGLISH-ONLY instruction and opportunities.
In the past, all other immigrants from every conceivable country on this earth were subjected to these procedures. They eventually assimilated. But again, I'm speaking here of those who don't have citizenship as a final objective. They're just here for quick cash and to enjoy the benefits of our way of life. They will drain our economy of much more than they contribute if we allow them to.
In case no one has mentioned it before, we ALREADY HAVE a Guest Worker program in place. The illegal workers simply don't care to stand in line with the rest of their comrades. They are willing to break the law to jump ahead of them. Then, they play our various social support systems to snatch and grab as much as they can while they can. And it's all at the expense of those who work and pay into these systems. And as if to rub salt in our wounds, they refuse to even learn English! I've had enough.
I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!!