Mark, from the article ….Time and time again, President Bush has said he would do something, and then gone ahead and done it…So, which of the Presidents quotes below have the Islamo-fascists shaking in their boots (sandals)?:

Bush on hunting OBL
"I want justice," Bush said. "And there's an old poster out West… I recall, that said, 'Wanted, Dead or Alive.'"

“So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you.”

but wait, Mark - surely u recall that we're "creating" terorists...from presumably nothing but whabbi brain-f**ked, goat herders & heroin growers.

never mind that the islamo-facist movement grew rapidly during the do-nothing 90's while ol clinton was busy depositing DNA.

d*mn, I forgot 9/11 was a conspiracy between mossad & the cia...as evidenced by saudi royals flying-out while the entire civilian air fleet was grounded.

I wish sean penn would pass that heroin bong...

"while ol clinton was busy depositing DNA."

But, Double O, no one died.

Get over it.

Let me see if I have gist of the opinion. Bush is a force that can not be denied except for political dissent lead by the MSM. Anti American agents from Pakistan to Syria are waiting for the next President (Dem or Pub) to take office to launch their Islamo conspiracy to take over the world because, due to public anti war pressure, the next president wont have the balls that “W” has to fight the global struggle against something or other.

There are many problems with this “theory”. The president has not made good on his promises. The job was never finished in Afghanistan. The Taliban is a growing threat in the region. Afghanistan has return to a lawless narco state. Every year since 9/11, according to the State Department, terrorist related deaths have increased many times. Iraq has shown that President bush and Rummy are totally incompetent. Hamas is now in power in Palestine. Iran grows more defiant every day. The list goes on and on.

Mark wrote,

It is an illusion to think we can withdraw from Iraq, or even from the whole middle east, and that the war won't then follow us home.

Mark,

I disagree. Before our dependency on Middle East oil Islamist were no major threat. We thought of them as friendly neighbors and terrorism in our homeland was unheard of. The Middle East was a safe place to travel and Arabs were our friends.

The solution is energy independence. We develop alternatives to the gas engine and we can pull out of the Middle East all together while still protecting the homeland. You all want to call such ideas nutty but in fact they are being done in spite of the governments lack of leadership. There is no reason we can't launch an energy independence program the likes of the Apollo program or the Manhattan project....is there?? Well maybe there is...the Oil and Coal lobbies. But other then them and people who refuse to acknowledge their stranglehold on our policy there is no reason we can't become energy independent. The cost will be much less and the rewards greater and the tensions between us and the Middle East will improve with time......Peace, a strong defense and time will go much farther to solving the problem. You offer nothing but endless war, violence, hatred and wasted money for years unending.

The war won't follow us home because we have the best defense in the world and homeland security can work if we'd put money into IT instead of nation "building" and wasting so much money on this fruitless war. How can you not see these things? Is your way really the Christian way?? It's weird because I don't believe in God but I really feel I follow the teachings of Jesus closer then many self-procliamed believers.

Very sound ideas, muirgeo. Now if we can just figure out a way for Halliburton to make billions from them.....

Mark,

Good post!

I'm running a little short of time for a longer post so I'll just repeat my opinions again, but more bluntly:

Liberals don't get it and apparently are incapable getting it or understanding the "real world". We do not live in some utopian world that exist in the minds of our elite liberal scholars.

The incessant liberal Democrat Bush-bashing, anti-war, anti-military, pro-retreat, pro-terrorist propaganda for the past 5 years is doing grave damage to America, our image overseas, and our ability to deal with problems around the world.

The liberal Democrat's irresponsible "free speech" IS KILLING AMERICAN TROOPS AND IRAQI CITIZENS and adversely affecting our efforts to stabilize the country. This needs to be repeated over and over until the American public understands it.

The liberal Democrat's irresponsible "free speech" has hurt President Bush's ability to deal effectively with Iran and North Korea, and America may ultimately pay a very high price it indeed. This too needs to be repeated over and over until the American public understands it.

If liberal Democrats really want to get out of Iraq quickly, then tell the world in plain English that they do not agree with the war or the removal of Saddam Hussein, but... everyone stands behind President Bush in his efforts to finish the job; we will remain in Iraq until our job is done; and we will defeat the terrorists -- in Iraq and around the world -- make no mistake about it!!!

Liberals are in denial over the fact their actions and "free speech" are harming America and our security!

The terms "liberal logic" and "liberal thinking" are oxymorons.

AAR

Ash,

My dream is for energy systems that allow people to make their own home and auto energy and for people to become independent of oil and energy companies.

It can and will happen but there is no advantage to companies like Haliburton. So in the mean time we send our poor kids to fight futile wars for these profiteers to gain even more power...with people like B4B cheering them on.
Our country is going into debt while these people are making record profits and kids (not theirs) are losing life and limb for them...its disgusting...and B4B is cheering them on...I don't get it. I guess I'm just a crazy moonbat azzhat um?

muigeo,

Your formula is for defensive war. Douglas MacArthur was once asked what his formula was for defensive war. His answer? "Defeat"

If you seek to defend, then you will eventually lose the war - you must seek to win, because that is the only path to victory and to peace.

Oil or no oil, at this point the Islamo-fascists are of a strength to keep this thing going even if we pull out altogether, abandon Israel to extermination and cease all imports of Arab oil...it doesn't matter what we do at this point, the war is on and it will go on until one side or the other is defeated...as we cannot be defeated, our withdrawal would only mean a very long, drawn out and bloody war until we finally took it upon ourselves to go back into the area.

We are dealing with extraordinarily evil men, Muigeo...you can bury your head in the sand, you an shout "peace" all you want, but you've got a war with men who are EXCITED at the prospect of cutting your head off.

Barney,

You live in a very weird world if you think the Taleban is gaining strength...or are you relying on Chomsky articles from 2003?

"...and it will eventually come righ back home to us in 9/11 after 9/11 after 9/11."

Mark, why is it that you are so confidant that our military and enormous republican government can defeat the islamo-fascists and build a modern democracy around a primitive tribal culture half-way around the world, yet you seem to have no confidence that that same military and government can protect us here? It doesn't add up. It sounds like more politically motivated fear mongering.

Great point Mark,

Let's give the Iranians "the whole nine yards," now!

RP

There must be a full moon, the moonbats are out in force. Turn the other cheek, let the Islamofascists multiply unchecked. All will be well,why can't we just love one another?

Duh.

xm, it's very simple. The war as we have it today is one on the incentives and infrastructure to perpetuate jihad. The defensive posture, other than leaving a large fraction of the human race over to barbaric enslavement, counts on a PERPETUAL defense of 7,000 odd miles of border (not counting HI and AK, shall we leave them to dar al islam?) from penetration by small groups of people or even individuals armed with nothing but specialized training (and soon perhaps not even that) and the will to kill Americans. Actually, even an impermeable border (an impossibility even if everyone was on board for that) would not be salutory unless Americans gave up travel and business abroad. Is this really a more practical solution than trying to expand the benefits of liberty we know so well to another part of the world? Success in the Iraq war may be a long shot (though a historical analysis shows otherwise) but Fortress American is an impossibility as well as a moral nullity.

On the post: Kerry and any other Dem contender except Lieberman (or Clinton, frankly I think she should scare the crap out of the jihadis), we know would certainly accomodate our enemies and withdraw from Iraq. The Democrats have all along been determined to make Iraq into Viet Nam for their own depraved political necessities and the timing is certainly just right for a redo of the abandonment of our allies and the ensuing slaughter and exodus (anyone remember The Boat People? I thought not). This would of course be the crowning achievement of the "Peace" movement so called; a humiliation for the US, a existential slap to the hellish Bush and a resurgence of tribal grievances on the world stage that could... COULD! Oh, gosh I hope... bring down capitalism/globalism/Republicanism; that hydraheaded source of all our problems. Genius. Only Bush stands between these insipid projectors and the collapse of the West they thirst for so desperately. Should be plenty.

AAR,

Everything bad in Iraq is because of liberals and free speech.....uhhh......yeeeeah??...riiiiiight???? You patriotic little American Nazi you... Your brain is so bassackward its incredible.

This Bush administration and you Bushbots are the whiniest little twerps I've ever seen. They screw up incessantly and always try to lay blame on others NEVER taking responsibility for there own ineptness.

Repeating it over and over will never make it true. The problem is an inept administration and the 32% of Knucklehead American Bush-bots (funny...the spell checker had a correction for the way I spelled Bushbots...it must be a real word) who continue to support this nincompoop. YOU MY FRIEND ARE GETTING OUR SOLDIERS KILLED. Stop playing Orwell with the facts.....Their blood is YOURS! Are brave military ARE NOT CAPABLE of defending silly people from their silly irrational fears. Think MAN THINK...you're getting our people killed because you've succumbed to irrational fears.

megapotamus - you seem to have bought into the "take the war to the enemy theory" where fighting the war in Iraq somehow curbs terrorism. It is claimed that the war in Iraq has consumed Al-Qaeda resources and prevented them from attacking, yet we've had attacks in Madrid, Bali, London, etc.. Has it occured to you that the Al-Qaeda leadership is thinking the same thing - that the U.S. is so conveniently preoccupied with Iraq and has stopped looking for them that they now have the freedom to work on their new attacks on the U.S.?

Oblivious propaganda machines like muirgeo cannot realize the irony of their own statements. They don't realize that everything they say about the ones they dislike ("Repeating it over and over will never make it true," etc.) can be at least equally attributed to those they support. None will deny that Iraq has its problems right now, that does not mean it's the apocalypse over there. I believe AAR said that it's the Democrats and those who are opposed to the war that make the situation on the ground worse than it actually is.

Don't believe him? Visit Iraq yourself, and then you have a small chance of forming your own view of the situation without reliance on transmitted information that could very well be distorted. However, even if you do this, it's entirely possible that your expectations will lead you to perceive Iraq as better/worse than it actually is.

Anyone who hasn't personally visited Iraq has no place to say that others are distorting the truth about it. Your source of information about Iraq may well be distorted in the first place.

"Before our dependency on Middle East oil Islamist were no major threat. "
Geo, are you serious?
How about a thousand years of threat to western civilization? Ever hear of the Crusades? Happened more than once, made all the papers, no?

“… learn the lessons of history … or … doomed to repeat them” ~ Santana

muirgeo

Struck a nerve did we!

Maybe it was because I made this post a little shorter and put it in blunt and more easily understood language so liberals wouldn't have any problem misinterpreting what I said or what I meant. I think I need to do this more often!

Call me names if that makes you feel better. Mark even gave you a separate thread so you liberals could continue your personal attacks on him. After all, character assassination is another of the many liberal tools they use when they can't fight one's ideas with their warped logic!

RE: "Everything bad in Iraq is because of liberals and free speech..."

No, absolutely not and I never said it was. Everything bad in Iraq IS NOT because of liberals incessant irresponsible anti-American hate "free speech", but much of it is... and, Americans need to recognize and understand that!

Liberals say Bush didn't have a plan... What President Bush failed to anticipate was the liberal Democrat anti-Bush, anti-American hate campaign... the same one that encourages the terrorists in Iraq, that encourages and incites terrorists around the world, that has hurt our military's efforts to stabilize the country, and that has resulted in the death and injury of many American soldiers and Iraqi citizens!

Liberals say Bush didn't have a plan... He didn't have a plan to counter the never ending attacks and character assassination from the liberal left and their liberal propaganda machine before many American's and the world began to believe their lies. He took body punch after body punch until it was too much. I would not have taken them if I had been President!

I'm tired of liberal and Democrats trashing America and America's soldiers and putting our soldiers lives at even more risk than they are!

I'm tired of the liberal agenda for America. It is weakling everything that is America and that has made America a great nation. I will do all I can energize the conservatives and help Americans see liberals for what they are!

RE: "Repeating it over and over will never make it true."

It DOES for the liberal left and liberal Democrats! I've seen too much of how the left works not to know that it does, except that mine won't be lies. Hopefully the same method will work to spread the truth as it does for lies!

I'm just going to start using the same tactic you liberals use and encourage other Conservatives and Republicans to do the same... repeat it over and over and over and over... until at least some people begin to get the message. Of course, I don't have the MSM behind me to help, but Fox News, blogs, editorials, e-mails, and word of mouth will get me started. Hopefully others will do more of the same and burry the liberal plan and agenda for America.

RE: "...NEVER taking responsibility..."

That's part of the liberal motto, why would you accuse a Republican of that? Why, in today's liberal America, no one is responsible for anything... it's always someone else's fault! You know that!

RE: "You patriotic little American... "

Yes and proud of it. As far as the rest of that comment, I'll ignore it as being more character assassination and untrue, but glad to know your opinion!

Now where is Ash with his thought provoking one line winners?

AAR

We are dealing with extraordinarily evil men, Muigeo...you can bury your head in the sand, you an shout "peace" all you want, but you've got a war with men who are EXCITED at the prospect of cutting your head off.
-Mark

Do you have no perspective? Couldn't Iraqi's say this about our troops? I know lots of troops, of all temperments, and I know at least 3 people who have said they like "killing F-ing Iraqi's" and joked about laying into an apartment building where an RPG came from. Are our troops evil men? No. Are they whipped into a situation where you have to dehumanize people in order to kill them as you do every change you get? yes. You are killing people Mark, they aren't vampires or demon spawns, they don't have black blood in their veins. Your childish "good vs evil" ideas just show your overall lack of intelligence, and lack of personal foundation to take in the world and make your own decisions.

As usual, the parrots offer up the same tired false dichotomy: "fight them HERE or THERE -- NOW or LATER."

The two dimentional -- black vs. white, fight or flight, mate or wait -- are the only choices that most animals, especially the ones we refer to as "lower" animals (ancestral is better), are capable of dealing with.

At some point we should hold humans to a slightly higher standard -- but apparently this site is not leading the charge. But hey, it's biological, they can't help themselves.

The late Steven Jay Gould had some intersting comments on this type of thought process -- too bad he's dead.

Barney,

You live in a very weird world if you think the Taleban is gaining strength...or are you relying on Chomsky articles from 2003?
Posted by: Mark Noonan

Mark, here are some non-Chomsky from last month:
From the BBC:
There has been an upsurge in violence in southern Afghanistan over the last year, making some parts no-go areas for aid workers.
Attacks in 2005 left more than 1,400 people dead - Afghanistan's bloodiest year since US-led forces ousted the Taleban in late 2001.
From Asia Online:
KARACHI - As another spring approaches in Afghanistan, another Taliban-led offensive is planned. But this year, the Taliban believe, unlike in the previous offensives in the five years since they were booted out of power in Kabul, they are better organized than ever before.

A key to the Taliban's revival has been the links it has forged with the resistance in Iraq.

Asia Times Online has learned that as many as 500 fighters who trained in Iraq are now in Afghanistan or Pakistan, while many others are expected to return soon.

According to Asia Times, we are creating more terrorists than we are killing.

Good post Salvelinus,

I sometimes think we've recently averted natural selection but can only do so for so long. Then the heard will be culled severely and primitive thinking will hopefully be weeded out and we can move on from the cave man mentality we see here.
The problem is their thinking is Darwinistic and its possible higher thinking will not matter and humanity will exist in an eternal morass of endless societal failures...you know the Madd Max scenario. That's the future these guys offer.
They don't even believe in evolution but their politics are based on Social Darwinism and they are excited about the end of the Earth..Do we even stand a chance?..Sad.

Steve is off the mindset of most Democrats the WOT is a police action, where as the vast majority of Republcian that I know want them destroyed.

I am in the destroy them column

Lack of intelligence? They just dumbed down the application test for firefighters in Virginia for guys like you. Regarding the enemy, they would still cut your head off in a second Steve. So whats your point in cheering for them and UNDERSTANDING their 'temperament'? Libs are always so touchy feely...must be the combination of drugs and poetry while cheering their recently released 'bareback' dvd. Our guys are fighting evil; for you I would suggest our military men just put those panties back on your head...you look so lovely. Mock them as you will libs....but America's defenders are our defenders. Steve equates Americans with the enemy...and bet you ten bucks he's flying his Mexican flag over ours right now too. But, of course, he would protest to you, that he is patriotic. Since you know, he knows all 'those' troops. Do you think they would like to hang with you, considering your backhanded comments? Hope they find out just who 'steve' is and apply some military justice to that weasel.

Retired U.S. Marine Corps General Anthony Zinni, former Commander in Chief of CENTCOM, conservative Republican, and 2000 supporter of George W. Bushm appeared this past Sunday on Meet The Press right after Senator McCain’s appearance. Zinni made it clear that the war is Iraq is a STRATEGIC failure because of faulty decisions made ABOVE the level of military commanders. Here’s what Gen. Zinni said:

“Well, I—first of all, I saw it in the way the intelligence was being portrayed. I knew the intelligence; I saw it right up to the day of the war. I was asked at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing a month before the war if I thought the threat was imminent. I didn’t. Many of the people I know that were involved in the intelligence side of this, or, or in the military felt the same way. I saw the—what this town is known for: spin, cherry-picking facts, using metaphors to evoke certain emotional responses, or, or shading the, the context. We, we know the mushroom clouds and, and the other things that were all described that the media’s covered well. I saw on the ground, though, a sort of walking away from 10 years worth of planning. You know, ever since the end of the first Gulf War, there have been—there’s been planning by serious officers and planners and others, and policies put in place. Ten years worth of planning, you know, were thrown away; troop levels dismissed out of hand; General Shinseki basically insulted for speaking the truth and giving a, an honest opinion; the lack of cohesive approach to how we deal with the aftermath; the political, economic, social reconstruction of a nation, which is no small task; a belief in these exiles that anyone in the region, anyone that had any knowledge would tell you were not credible on the ground; and on and on and on. Decisions to disband the army that were not in the initial plans. I mean there’s a series of disastrous mistakes. We just heard the secretary of state say these were tactical mistakes. These were not tactical mistakes. These were strategic mistakes, mistakes of policy made back here. Don’t blame the troops. They’re the ones that perform the tactics on the ground. They’ve been magnificent. If anything saves this, it will be them.”

But, hey, rather than admit George W. Bush committed the first major strategic blunder of the 21st century by initiating the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time, then to top it off completely mis-managed the execution of that war, why not focus on the fact that this Zinni guy has spent his entire life feeding off TAX DOLLARS! You should investigate that socialist-leaning U.S. Marine Corps and see if it’s harboring any more free-enterprise-hating, America-bashing Islamofascist fellow travelers.

Ash

You're wrong, thousands of people died under Clinton's watch and beyond.

Because he didn't take out OBL when he had the chance to, 3000 Americans dead. USS Cole...dead. Embassy personnel...dead.

But hey, he found a nice humidor for his cigars...the Monica humidor.

Muirigo

I'm for energy independence too, so are MOST conservatives and MOST Republicans.

Here's the deal, however, it's decades away from total independence. So while we have other ways to close the gap on Middle East oil, there is the hypocritical left denying it at every turn.

ANWR anyone?

Mark, here is another:
SF Chron 4/3/06
The dramatic rise of the self-described Pakistani Taliban in recent months has triggered alarm among Pakistan's leaders and marked a significant setback in the American-driven war on Islamic militancy.
The militants are strongest in North and South Waziristan, two of seven tribal districts along the Afghan border.

"The so-called war on terror is going badly," said a Western diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity.

I guess they are just gearing-up for the '08 election.

Barney,

Well, at least that is new...but it is also a retread...we've been getting the same story every spring since 2002...every spring the Taliban are set to come back in a massive offensive as the Mayor of Kabul can't control his country...yadda, yadda, yadda...

Going over to Centcom, I note that the most recently discovered IED - turned in to the Afgan National Army by an Afghan civilian, was a propane tank....hardly the mark of a resurgent Taliban...

"Now where is Ash with his thought provoking one line winners?
AAR"

Here I be, Ahrrrr:

"I'm just going to start using the same tactic you liberals use and encourage other Conservatives and Republicans to do the same... repeat it over and over and over and over.."

You're kidding, right? Hay-Zeuss! If I give the Repubs props for anything it is their genius for framing the debate. Remember George's famous line: "You've just got to propel the propaganda...?"

Sorry that was more than one line, but dude your long winded sermons get lost in the wind. Get to the point man. I'm a busy person.

"But hey, he found a nice humidor for his cigars...the Monica humidor."

Get over it!

If the 3,000 dead you refer to is the Twin Towers, man if George would have just payed attention to his advisors that an attack was imminent....well 3,000 lives could have been saved.

You know I could never understand the folks that think the Repubs are the party that will protect us. Didn't it happen of W.'s watch?

"ANWR anyone?"

Ugh, NO.

Ash,

"You know I could never understand the folks that think the Repubs are the party that will protect us. Didn't it happen of W.'s watch?"

You're right, it's the fault of the Republicans, much like how it's the fault of the security guard who has two minutes to defuse a bomb before it explodes and not the fault of the previous security guard who just stared at the bomb for his whole four-hour shift before letting the blamed security guard take his place.

OD: Actually we should really blame Henry Ford. If he hadn't made automobiles affordable for the masses, we would have never become recumbant to the beasts from the middle east. Or...maybe if that caveman hadn't invented the wheel, then Henry Ford couldn't have invented.......

...I don't get it. I guess I'm just a crazy moonbat azzhat um?

Once again, morongeo, you left out "moron." And "kook."

You, Ash-hole, and Baloney are f'n broken records; you come here and parrot the crap they feed you over at Kos and DU. None of us "Bushies" are impressed with your pseudo-intellect, nor are we threatened by you.

Halliburton, "nobody died," the rich get richer--we hear this crap incessantly, every time there's a Republican administration. Surely, morongeo, you're aware of this. Clue little Ash-breath and Baloney in on this; they're third-grade classmates. You, on the other hand, are a grown-up with children, children I pity. So keep repeating the same old same old, so we here at B4B can get our laughs. You preach to the choir, morongeo, and the choir is small here.

Ans as usual, you, Barney, and Ash-wipe need to bone-up on your writing skills. As Simon Cowell would say, your writing is bloody appalling!

Keefer,..Ans as usual, you, Barney, and Ash-wipe need to bone-up on your writing skills. As Simon Cowell would say, your writing is bloody appalling!
Posted by: keefer

Keef, I will make a note of the correct spelling of “and”. Thanks for the tip.

Ash,

How cute...and pointless. Stop turning everything into an extreme and admit that events in the recent past have had disastrous effects on the present. Or at least stop selectively being a hypocrite about it.

It is rather scary Muirgeo what some of these people think, but hey, they get to vote too. Waitin for the Rapture, scared of Science, playing the victim while the majority. You'd think they'd get off the Cross and leave room for Jesus.

Lord only knows what dickdee is ranting about, but it sounds like the common GOP spin that liberals want to send Osama to therapy sessions as opposed to capturing or killing him (where is he by the way?). Conservatives like war, militaries that are never big enough, and peace through superior firepower (a policy that's done wonders in the War on Terror). As long as they're in power the WOT will indeed be a never-ending, generational struggle.

The funny thing is, George Bush is not the sum and whole of the War on Terror. Our Armed Forces do not cease to exist when Bush gets criticized. Their missions do not stop and their weapons do not fail. George Bush is not the only human being in the United States who can hunt Al Qaeda (contrary to what frightened Republicans looking at dismal poll numbers for the 2006 elections try to claim).

we like bush in south africa

thabo

As usual keefer you've got no reply except to name call.

If you think America can't become energy independent and if you don't think your life and our country is being run by the oil giants you're a dern fool beyond help and you're a weak little piss ant of an american with a whiny NO CAN DO attitude and our country won't be saved by the likes of people like you but in fact it will be saved and is being saved by the people you despise and like to call names. That is true Americans with actual intellectual thoughts that are what have made our country greater then all the others.

"Waitin for the Rapture, scared of Science, playing the victim while the majority. You'd think they'd get off the Cross and leave room for Jesus."

GOPisDying

That's some classic stuff there. I'm filing this one away in my "Pathetic Neocons" file.

OD: The point of my satire was: THE BUCK STOPS HERE

Stop excusing the current administrations ineptness on the previous one.

muirgeo,

Let's see,

You are for energy independence. So are most Americans. Who isn't for apple pie and motherhood?

Without oil our economy, the world economy dies, and our lifestyle dies, or at least withers for quite a while. We can discuss the impact of that on another thread, but the picture ain't good!

Contrary what liberals may think, there is no instant gratification. There is no instant replacement for the oil we currently use. It will take decades to become essentially energy independent.

Now... which one of these statements are not true?

You do not support helping protect our foreign sources of oil with military force if necessary.

You do support putting Halliburton and the big companies out of business that supply our critical oil needs.

You do not support drilling for our own oil in ANWR -- the Caribou, which are multiplying, are more important than America's needs.

You do not support drilling off the our coasts, especially California and Florida -- too many rich liberal campaign contributors whose view may be impaired which if more important than the needs of other Americans.

You do not support drilling for oil anywhere else in America.

You do not support using more of America's coal resources and coal gasification.

You do not support installing more nuclear power plants.

Is there anything realistic that you do support to produce our own oil?

Is your only solution to make it mandatory for Americans to use less oil until that "energy independence" appears on the horizon?

Wind and solar are not economical alternatives... or would you disregard that, raise the cost of energy by 5 or 10 times and tell people they will use it regardless of what it costs them?

You believe that oil is being run by the "oil giants". Just tell all liberals to park their cars, shut off their heat, shut off their stoves, shut off their air conditioning, and stop using any other energy and the big oil companies will be in big trouble. You liberals have the power to do something about big oil. Don't say that conservatives must do it also. Just stand up for your convictions and insist that all liberals stop using anything that uses oil in anyway!

Oh, did I fail to mention that you will also have to stop using anything made from oil or using oil energy to produce it. That includes all of your plastics and just about anything else. Oh, I forgot, that also includes anything shipped using gas or oil. I guess that pretty much cuts off all of the things you buy from Wal-Mart, including your food. It also includes your water, either bottled or public water that uses energy to purify it and pump to your house.

That cuts off your food, water, transportation, lights, heat, and everything else I can think of, including your illogical Internet posts. But... you liberals can do your part to put big oil out of business and you don't even need the conservatives help to do it.

Specifically what is your proposal for energy independence? How long will it take? Can we stop using oil all together? How much will it cost? Will Americans have to cut back on their lifestyles?

Let's hear your solution!

AAR

keefer

RE: "... we hear this crap incessantly ... Surely, morongeo, you're aware of this ... So keep repeating the same old same old ..."

It goes back to what "muirgeo" said earlier - "Repeating it over and over will never make it true."

Unfortunately, as I'm sure you know quite well, repeating something, even a lie, often enough and long enough does make it true. Even the most illogical or ridiculous lie begins to appear true. That's why we hear the liberals repeating lies over and over and over, day after day after day. If enough people hear it often enough, many do begin to believe it and then repeat it to others as the truth. That's what we see from the liberal Democrats every day.

Conservatives and Republicans need to learn and use some of the liberal tactics to counter the lies and propaganda from the left. We need much more of it from the right.

Ash

RE: "Stop excusing the current administrations ineptness on the previous one."

Stop blaming all of America's problems, the world's problems, your problems, everybody else's problems, nature's problems, hurricanes, the sun's radiation, and any other thing in the universe on this administration and President Bush!

AAR

GOPisDying,

Just remember to be here on election night...so far, every time an election rolls around, those who have been here predicting our demise have failed to show up...

muirgeo,

Oil giants? ROFL...geesh, the ready stand-by of the left...blame the oil companies. Have you checked to see the size of Big Oil relative to the US conomy lately?

GOPD

RE: "...it sounds like the common GOP spin that liberals want to send Osama to therapy sessions as opposed to capturing or killing him (where is he by the way?)..."

The Democrats have Osama Bin Laden in a secret location!

I think they are holding him in Area 51. They plan to "capture" him if they win the presidency. That's how they can assure the American public that they will capture him if they are elected.

Didn't Hillary say she would capture him? Let's ask her where they have him hidden!

AAR

AAR asks: Now... which one of these statements are not true?

AAR answers: liberals may think, there is no instant gratification

Don't put words in our mouth AAR. But at some point we need to seriously admit we have an addiction to oil and seriously begin to do something about it.

"Didn't Hillary say she would capture him? Let's ask her where they have him hidden!"

Actually I think OBL could be captured if there was trully the will to do so. How much harm would it do to the present admin if he was caught?

It is the only trump card they hold and if they play it they would be forced to face the real issues of the day: health care, the environment (AKA global warming), under employment, race relations, the disappearing middle class, etc.

"The liberal Democrat's irresponsible "free speech" IS KILLING AMERICAN TROOPS AND IRAQI CITIZENS and adversely affecting our efforts to stabilize the country. This needs to be repeated over and over until the American public understands it." -AAR

Good god. Boy, AAR, you certainly have lost it, haven't you?

Yes, it's that evil media, and those evil "progressives," actually questioning the authority/decision making of your fearless leader, Doofus Bush - we're the ones to blame! We're the ones killing Americans & Iraqis!

Repeat that message all you want. You'll probably get some of the Sheep on this site to actually believe it. But if you were to step outside of Kansas for once, or wherever the hell you live, I don't think you'll find much of an audience.

Follow the money, AAR - always follow the money.

Hey! I found another free-enterprise-hating, America-bashing Islamofascist fellow travelers, who has spent his entire life feeding off TAX DOLLARS! Eric Haney, a retired command sergeant major of the U.S. Army, and a founding member of Delta Force, the military's elite covert counter-terrorist unit, has this to say about George W. Bush’s Iraq war:

"Q: What's your assessment of the war in Iraq?

"A: Utter debacle. But it had to be from the very first. The reasons were wrong. The reasons of this administration for taking this nation to war were not what they stated. (Army Gen.) Tommy Franks was brow-beaten and ... pursued warfare that he knew strategically was wrong in the long term. That's why he retired immediately afterward. His own staff could tell him what was going to happen afterward.

"We have fomented civil war in Iraq. We have probably fomented internecine war in the Muslim world between the Shias and the Sunnis, and I think Bush may well have started the third world war, all for their own personal policies."

Yah! Investigate the U.S. Army and Delta Force for harboring treasonous underminers of the War against Terrorism!

Maf,
Too many sheep on this site already believe it.
Posters on this site still haven't convinced me dissent against the war hurts the troops, hurts Americans and gives aid to the terrorists. And nobody (read: Noonan) has convinced anyone that dissent against this war is TREASON!
It is just amazing people think that way.

The hate the Dem's bring here is more hate than I could believe people of this Nation had for others .
These same people tell me they want to help others? How can they when they hate other than them selves. They want to save the environment, how? They drive cars, heat their home and spent a lot of time hating us and calling me stupid here. What do they think they use when they turn on the computer?
Race relations. How can you resolve what you enhance? Read what you write !
Simply, what have any of you here that hate us so, that complain and demand night after night here do to make one - one damned thing better? You don’t do it here! It’s not by giving a dollar or signing a piece of paper or reading a book. It’s not up to the Government to give you every thing and do every thing for you, study your Constitution. Then you might understand that it’s really up to you and to me and all of us to do what we can to help our Nation and it’s people as a whole.
I remember well hearing the words of a Great President who changed my live and I have always lived by them, they are the same words written by a great Arab Poet, “ Ask not, what your Country can do for you ! But, what you can do for your Country ! “ Dem’s here should learn to pull the rope and stop throwing stones. Stones hurt when us monkeys throw them back.
Thanks for letting me yell so much again tonight Mark and Matt.

Mark, I think the scariest thing of your post is that you think everyone else in the world is messed up except a Bush supporter.

Let's face it, a war on terrorism isn't going to get the same results as the Cold War because things such as communism are types of government while ideas such as terrorism are so relative and without a base that it's impossible to completely destroy it.

There is a reason for dissent and anger with this administration because they promises that were made by a majority of the people involved with the decision-making were so inept after years of history lessons. How about better oversight over just how those hundreds of billions of dollars somehow don't make it to body armor? The way I see it, we need to give the inhabitants of the actual region more and more responsibility and give ourself a schedule for withdrawal that will pressure us more to get results in terms of security and infrastructure. Let's not turn Iraq into some pseudo-colony reliant on us.

There's also a reality you're missing which has dictated history forever. You've got to compromise and deal with the guys against your interests such as Iran and North Korea somehow instead of going gun-ho pretending that it's going to make us safe. First we need to actually work on places such as Afghanistan and CATCHING OSAMA BIN LADEN before we try to do too many things at once. Didn't our parents every once in a while tell us to do something right instead of trying to do everything with mediocre results? Do you really want more fighting? Is that a future you want to see this world in? This isn't a fairy tale where the "good guys" are always going to win. People actually die on both sides in these stories.

Alf,

You see, with my rather large fund of knowledge on matters military, economic and political, I have come to the conclusion that we're winning the war; hands down and across the board. In all my studies, I've never seen a more magnificent effort with larger payoffs for blood and treasure invested.

You're working from the MSM/leftwing position that we're losing...given that, there's really not much for you and I to talk about. The facts are on my side, but you don't want to face them because that would force you to admire President Bush.

Mark,

You're making the mistake that I'm some blue-blooded hippie. For the record I don't associate myself with any party. I actually like Bush for some of the immigration reform he wants in place but there are other big topics that leave me a bit shady on him...

What I first want to know is what you mean when you say "winning the war..." In Iraq? Or in general against terrorism?

As for Iraq, I think it's a bit too early to call still on what's going to happen. "Victory" for me would be if the American military started continously pulling out of Iraq leaving behind a stable government and a well trained military. That still hasn't happened yet. And there are still radical and influential people like Muqtada al-Sadr, who, let's admit it, are needed in the political process with the Shi'ites to keep them from going nuts on the Sunnis. And then there's Iran to the west. Still a way to go, Mark. Saddam's gone and in court but we've yet to see whether or not the new boss will be the same as the old boss...

And I hope you realize this isn't our grandaddy's wars. This is a war against a shadowy foe who doesn't rely on a centralized base. I hope you've taken that into account with your calculations.

muirgeo,

Oil giants? ROFL...geesh, the ready stand-by of the left...blame the oil companies. Have you checked to see the size of Big Oil relative to the US conomy lately?

Posted by: Mark Noonan

Exxon Mobil rides oil prices to No. 1 Forbes ranking Mark are you doing Ambien or what? Are you enjoying the price you are paying at the pump? Are you enjoying the debt your kids get to pay off for this war? Are you OK that the energy policy was made behind closed doors between Cheney and oil executives? Were you OK with the Oil executives NOT being sworn in when they testified before congress about why they were raping the American consumer and making record profits while everyday Americans struggle to pay the extra price for gas and while young Americans die to secure the mid east oil markets? I mean what would be an example of evidence that the oil companies are actually controlling our politicians and our public policy? It's so plainly evident yet to you these facts are like water on the back of a duck.

You my friend are guilty of dereliction of duty to be a god US citizen and honestly support your country...you are asleep at the wheel while your country heads towards the cliffs. Exxon Mobile is number one because guys like you support paying an extra $1,000 bucks a year in fuel prices to propel their company to record profits and making excuses for them on top of it....that's called being a tool or a sheeple. WAKE UP man ...you are in some mind be numbed funk of a hazy fog like mental state. You need to SNAP OUT of it.

Mark any chance you have a finger in each ear and are making nose with your mouth like..balabalallahababah....so you can't hear all the facts you don't like..cus man dude you are NOT payin attention. Perfectly happy selling out your country to the highest bidder.......darn shame......come back Mark....come back from the Dark side.....join us as we revolt against this stuff...of the people, by the people and for the people.....we're gonna restore THAT.

Let's hear your solution!

AAR

Posted by: AAR at April 5, 2006 07:27 PM

First of all AAR the solution was presented 30 years ago by President Carter after he saw the light from the Arab Oil embargo. He proposed all sorts of programs to find alternative fuels. Those programs were never pursued and reversed during the reagan administration. Another country, Brazil, also saw the light and now 30 years later their country runs on Ethanol. They are energy independent (or almost so). But are policy was steered away from such because the oil lobby had to much easy money to make. Government of the people, by the people and for the people gave way to corporate interest.

Now coming to the modern day. With the purchase of my last two cars have cut my fuel consumption 33%.

Here in California we are massively subsidizing solar panels on homes which will produce power equivalent to 4 major power plants.

Electric cars are already feasible for short and moderate commutes. In California they were being sold and people loved them but then they were pulled from he market because they weren't profitable to the auto industry because they needed so little maintenance.

We should increase CAFE standards and get rid of the SUV loop hole in CAFE standards we should require auto manufactures to offer electric cars or "plug-ins" on their hybrids. We should initiate a fuel tax and offset it with equivalent income tax cuts.

Finally, ethanol and biodiesal are already workable to take off some of the need for oil consumption. The government needs to massively subsidize these alternatives and research getting more options to the market.

There are lots of solutions ARR that could have us off foreign oil in 20 years or so. But now we are so distracted with this useless war and so much money is being wasted by this administration that very little is left over for real solutions.

"You see, with my rather large fund of knowledge on matters military, economic and political, I have come to the conclusion that we're winning the war; hands down and across the board. In all my studies, I've never seen a more magnificent effort with larger payoffs for blood and treasure invested."

Whew that says it all! Mark you are a megalomaniac. Can I change my answer from the thread "Why I hate Mark Noonan"?

Obviously it's not your blood.

Let's see regarding the state of Iraq should I trust "Man of the World" Mark Noonan or maybe the Retired U.S. Marine Corps General Anthony Zinni or the Delta Force Eric Haney, a retired command sergeant major of the U.S. Army, and a founding member of Delta Force.Ummm...... I think I'll go with the guys who actually know about fighting wars.

Just reading the stuff and keefer has been smokin his stuff again, he actually said "us bushies" a singular point of pride I assume.

What's it like to have your boy come off as a fool every time he tries to speak without a teleprompter?

What's it like to hear your boy say he wouldn't change anything he did in first 4 years?

What's it like to support a revealed liar?

What's it like to know your boy has been shown to be a coward who avoided service in time of war and used priviledge to do it?

What's it like to be in support of a war no one wants lead by someone no one trusts?

What's it like to watch your boy's ratings tank?

What's it like to know that your boy is going down as the worst president ever?

There will come a time when you mention bush people will just laugh. I don't think he'll be getting any big speaking engagments do you? I hope he lives long so he can witness what a recognized embarrassment he becomes.

Actually Jacob, I could see some future for the Bushmeister as a standup comedian. When he does that turkey thing with his neck, you know gobble, gobble, I just crack up.

Ash,

"OD: The point of my satire was: THE BUCK STOPS HERE

"Stop excusing the current administrations ineptness on the previous one."

I'm not entirely excusing the administration's actions. I know there was a lot the government could have done to make it better. But my point is that you're giving entirely too much blame to one individual and his friends. You're not factoring in any reasonable other sources at all. You're accusing him of being the ONLY one responsible for 9/11 (aside from the terrorists, of course). Why don't you fling your flack at Clinton for also not acting on intelligence? Furthermore, why don't you admit that it's unreasonable to think that Bush could be of sound mind at the time with a vague reference to the time of a terrorist attack? Was Bush to stop all air travel from the day he got the memo to the day the attacks were supposed to occur? Oh, right, if he did that, the attacks wouldn't have happened, and we'd be perpetually stuck on the ground.

It's a "d***ed if I do, d***ed if I don't" sort of thing. Hindsight action is always the best, but unfortunately by the time you can do it, it's too late.

Alf,

Yes, I have - and in taking one thing with another, it is the nature of the enemy which impelled me to write the "From Dissent to Treason" articles...perhaps when the enemy was clearly defined one could get away with what the left is doing...but when we're dealing with something as nebulous as terrorism, we have to be extra careful.

Muirgeo,

As for Zinni and Haney - superb soldiers, both of them...but in matters strategic, they haven't got much sense, in my view.

It isn't too surprising a thing, after all: war is, indeed, much to serious a business to be left in the hands of generals (or Command Sargent Majors).

It is not at all surprising that the military novice can come up with a clearer strategic picture than the professional military people...while professional officers are hands down best at organizing a military force and leading it in to battle, it is quite often that the professional military people can't see beyond the material...can't see, that is, the larger strategic picture...which includes economics, politics, sociology, theology, etc.

Only some times is a good general also a good strategist...MacArthur was, while Eisenhower was not. The sum total of British strategic thinking during WWI did not rise to the level of the one person, Winston Churchill...who was also denigrated as a military amateur.

Zinni and Haney have their opinions, and they are flat wrong and I am grateful that they are in no way responsible for making the strategic decisions in this war - if they were, we'd would already have lost it.

Wow mark, got a pretty huge freaking head on your shoulders there eh? Sure you are more qualified than generals to strategize a war, sure you are...(calling the looney bin)

...and didn't you serve in the navy> too ?

Not only is Mark "General" Noonan more qualified than the generals, he has made clear the "simple" choice we Americans must face: finish the job in Iraq (massive wholesale slaughter should stop "Islamofacism" in its tracks, right?), or should we delegate the problem to our children, who will be busy working to pay off our obscene national debt, currently pegged at over $29,000 per every man woman and child, and growing?

Well Mark since you put it that way, I have another suggestion. Mr. President, fire Rumsfeld and hire Mark Noonan. He is brilliant, has all the answers, is an upstanding Christian, and knows just what to do about "Islamofacism".

Or maybe you should follow the path of Jesus and wander into the Las Vegas desert for 40 days and 40 nights and....hopefully....never come back.

Attn: morons,

Are you implying that all military experts agree with Zinni and Haney? Are you just selecting the one's that agree with you and ignoring the others that don't?

Pretty damn arrogant of you.