This is from Rasmussen:
In our survey, we informed respondents that there are 11 million illegal aliens living in the United States and that more than half have lived here for more than five years. Upon hearing those facts, 40% favored forcibly requiring all 11 million to leave the United States. Just 44% are opposed to a forcible removal of illegal aliens.
This does not mean that 40% would support whatever actions are required to remove the current population of illegal aliens. However, it clearly indicates that there is no broad support for a policy that begins with an assumption that those who already live here should be allowed to stay.
I find that amazing - though I'd like to see some more polling over time on the question to really draw a conclusion...it could be that we're just seeing an intensity of anti-illegal immigrant feeling due to the recent pro-illegal immigration demonstrations around the country. But 40%? That is a lot of people who are willing to go quite harsh on it.
Of course, in my view when we ask the question of "round 'em up or leave 'em there", we are really asking the wrong question - if we firmly control our borders, then in time we will whittle away the number of illegals. The key is to get the number of deportations to exceed the number of illegal entries...do that, and the illegal immigration problem is solved, even if it takes a decade of steady attrition to bring the numbers of illegals down to insignifigance.
This is why, even before the demonstrations, I favored an Israel-style wall - if necessary along the entire 2,000 mile border...heck, step it back a thousand yards from the border, completely level off that thousand yards, make the wall 100 feet high and top it with razor wire and have ceaseless military patrols along the 1,000 yard cleared area...whatever it takes to make crossing the border something only done legally. At that point, we'd be able to approach the issue calmly and come out with a just and merficul disposition of the problem - as long as the borders are even perceived as wide open, then the American people will keep coming back to that issue, and that will prevent any comprehensive solution from being enacted.
Posted by Mark Noonan at April 5, 2006 12:59 AM
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Comments
*Chuckles*
Well I'm not about to go THAT far when it comes to a barrier (Though that'd be kind of cool to see) I do agree you can't do just ONE thing to fix this problem.
You can't JUST build a wall.
You can't JUST deport them all.
You can't JUST attack the companies that hire illegals.
You can't JUST adjust current immigration policy.
You can't JUST give amnesty or a guest worker program.
If you only do one thing, you're still going to have the problem. Just go after the companies and you'll still get those who don't work with companies coming over. They'll do whatever odd job they can find and stay below the radar.
Just put up a wall and they'll find other ways to get here. Either by tunneling or shipping themselves here. (Like the Chinese)
If you just adjust the number of leagal enterants then you're still dealing with all of those who don't even bother. Or if you just make it easier to immigrate you're not slowing down those who will jump in line as it were.
If you just deport them all then they'll just turn right around and walk back in. Also if you just say "hey you're all citizens, pay a fine and you're forgiven" all you're doing is encouraging MORE folks to do the same thing. They'll say, "Hey, if we hide out long enough they'll eventually just give up and give us citizenship!" It's happened every other time we've done it.
So what do I suggest? I think we need to attack ALL parts of the immigration issue. You can't JUST focus on any one section, nor can you focus on JUST the Mexicans. The Chinese and other asians are probably the number 2 most illegal immigration population. (Just my guess, if anyone has any idea where to find the numbers on that I'd apreciate it)
Make the process of immigration easier and more accessable.
Create barriers to crossing the border illegally.
Make it so we can deport those we catch who are illegal. (Happens all the friggin time here in So Cal. We just have to let them go. GRRRR)
Get those who are already here out in the open and NOT citizenship. Put them at the back of the line instead of cutting ahead as it were.
PUNISH those companies that hire illegals and make it painful to hire them. No slap on the wrist, but meaningful penalties for breaking the law.
Do all of these, and you'll start being able to control immigration. Ignore any one, and you're in for trouble down the road.
Posted by:
Gozer at April 5, 2006 01:11 AM
Oh! I almost forgot.
POLLS?! Bah Foowee! :p
Posted by:
Gozer at April 5, 2006 01:22 AM
Who'll man the wall?
All the patriots are in Iraq.
Posted by: The Small Town hick at April 5, 2006 05:09 AM
Gozer, through the impossible complexities of your argument, you made my point quite eloquently.
Oh, by the way, my point was that tackling the immigration issue in an election year was tantamount to holding on to the third rail -- all the donks have to do is sit on the sidelines looking concerned and wait until the GOP electrocutes themselves.
Posted by: Ricorun at April 5, 2006 05:35 AM
"make the wall 100 feet high and top it with razor wire and have ceaseless military patrols along the 1,000 yard cleared area."
I don't know Mark. This sounds more like the Berlin Wall to me.
Posted by: Ash at April 5, 2006 10:30 AM
As long as Bush keeps pushing his stupid "guest worker" program, which is really just a euphemism for amnesty, then he and all the republicans are in deep doo-doo. All republicans except Tom Tancredo and a very few others.
This is from a life-long Republican!
Bush keeps repeating the lie over and over: "the jobs that Americans won't do."
Bush rhetoric, courtesy of Joseph Goebels!
As certainly as Hitler destroyed Germany, Bush is determined to do likewise to the USA with his illegal immigration policy!
How to solve the problem? Clamp down on the employers -- which was PROMISED in the 1986 IRCA law, and never implemented.
And then deport QUICKLY all those who do not self-deport.
Yes, the nation is angry. VERY angry.
Bush, wake up! The CITIZENS are paying your salary. The CITIZENS are your boss! NOT Vicente Fox!
Posted by: nomoreillegals at April 5, 2006 11:32 AM
There's no point in bailing out the boat if you're just going to let the water keep coming through the hole. Fix the hole first and then worry about what to do with the water that got into the boat.
Posted by: Astravian at April 5, 2006 12:27 PM
"I don't know Mark. This sounds more like the Berlin Wall to me."
Thats because your ignorant. The Berlin wall was to keep people in this is to keep people out. I know its hard for your simple mind to grasp but its a fundemental difference.
Read a history book you moron, it might help.
Posted by: ZootAllure at April 5, 2006 01:11 PM
Yes, you can round them up. The companies they work for should foot the bill. After all, they cheated, they should pay.
I support the idea that Mexico needs to improve its system of economy.
Free Mexico!
Posted by: TomB at April 5, 2006 05:12 PM
[blockquote]Gozer, through the impossible complexities of your argument, you made my point quite eloquently. [/blockquote]
I thought I put it simply, but thank you none the less.
I agree, the whole "Jobs Americans won't do" line really pisses me off. Anyone seen the Discovery Channel show "Dirty Jobs?" OMG! If there are Americans that will do THOSE jobs, there are Americans that'll do anything. So don't give me the BS that we NEED illegals to do the work of Americans.
Posted by:
Gozer at April 5, 2006 07:05 PM
The numbers are wrong! the minority is the majority against criminalizing immigration. The US anglos, are experiancing a tase of their own medicine "Manifest Destiny" by Mexico. Soon the whole US is going to eating tacos Ha,Ha,Ha.
Posted by: john at April 7, 2006 03:45 PM
Mexican immigrants, legal and illegal, provide huge economic benefits to the nation. We cannot just deport illegals without severely disrupting many industries. It's not just the economic benefit from the work they do. The multiplier effect results in many more jobs being created to serve those 12 million immigrants.
Consider just one industry: construction. The Center for Immigration Research, which supports removal of illegal immigrants, estimates that 1.2 million illegals work in construction. If we could somehow deport all these workers, who would do the construction work? The unemployment rate is 4.8%, generally considered a full employment level. Where will the replacement construction workers be found? Housing will come to a severe halt. How will D.R. Horton, Pulte, and U.S. Home pay all their legal employees - the accountants, marketers, salepeople, etc.? With no homes being constructed, what will lumber companies do with all their lumber?
Deporting 12 million illegal immigrants - including the million workers and their families - would be an economic nightmare.
Posted by: JohnDewey at April 8, 2006 02:19 AM
Jobs that Americans won't do?? Americans were doing the jobs before the Hispanics came here.. Many people on unemployment would like to have these jobs.
Posted by: Christy at April 10, 2006 09:34 PM
i see no good comming from this immagration thing, how many are or will be criminals,..what about sterilization program, this country ( u.s.) is all ready over populated. this is a fool's dream, an organized political crime, if revolution comes...remember all politicians and theirs, all the rich and theirs, ( because they are pulling the strings)not paranoid on my part,..this is fuuny, and as shear as fast food glass.
Posted by: cherokee jim shelton at April 11, 2006 10:33 AM
Jobs Americans don't want. Give me a break! Plants like Hormel in Nebraska are laying off American workers, while hiring Mexicans at one third the wage and no benefits. Companies that want to hire only Americans can't compete, end up hiring Mexicans to survive. The "jobs Americans don't want" comment is like saying companies will only move to Mexico and China,if their employees don't want to work. Wake up and smell the Chili.
Posted by: Michael S. Hartman at April 15, 2006 09:02 AM
Jobs Americans don't want. Give me a break! Plants like major name brand company in Nebraska are laying off American workers, while hiring Mexicans at one third the wage and no benefits. Companies that want to hire only Americans can't compete, end up hiring Mexicans to survive. The "jobs Americans don't want" comment is like saying companies will only move to Mexico and China,if their employees don't want to work. Wake up and smell the Chili.
Posted by: Michael S. Hartman at April 15, 2006 09:05 AM
Post a comment
*Chuckles*
Well I'm not about to go THAT far when it comes to a barrier (Though that'd be kind of cool to see) I do agree you can't do just ONE thing to fix this problem.
You can't JUST build a wall.
You can't JUST deport them all.
You can't JUST attack the companies that hire illegals.
You can't JUST adjust current immigration policy.
You can't JUST give amnesty or a guest worker program.
If you only do one thing, you're still going to have the problem. Just go after the companies and you'll still get those who don't work with companies coming over. They'll do whatever odd job they can find and stay below the radar.
Just put up a wall and they'll find other ways to get here. Either by tunneling or shipping themselves here. (Like the Chinese)
If you just adjust the number of leagal enterants then you're still dealing with all of those who don't even bother. Or if you just make it easier to immigrate you're not slowing down those who will jump in line as it were.
If you just deport them all then they'll just turn right around and walk back in. Also if you just say "hey you're all citizens, pay a fine and you're forgiven" all you're doing is encouraging MORE folks to do the same thing. They'll say, "Hey, if we hide out long enough they'll eventually just give up and give us citizenship!" It's happened every other time we've done it.
So what do I suggest? I think we need to attack ALL parts of the immigration issue. You can't JUST focus on any one section, nor can you focus on JUST the Mexicans. The Chinese and other asians are probably the number 2 most illegal immigration population. (Just my guess, if anyone has any idea where to find the numbers on that I'd apreciate it)
Make the process of immigration easier and more accessable.
Create barriers to crossing the border illegally.
Make it so we can deport those we catch who are illegal. (Happens all the friggin time here in So Cal. We just have to let them go. GRRRR)
Get those who are already here out in the open and NOT citizenship. Put them at the back of the line instead of cutting ahead as it were.
PUNISH those companies that hire illegals and make it painful to hire them. No slap on the wrist, but meaningful penalties for breaking the law.
Do all of these, and you'll start being able to control immigration. Ignore any one, and you're in for trouble down the road.
Oh! I almost forgot.
POLLS?! Bah Foowee! :p
Who'll man the wall?
All the patriots are in Iraq.
Gozer, through the impossible complexities of your argument, you made my point quite eloquently.
Oh, by the way, my point was that tackling the immigration issue in an election year was tantamount to holding on to the third rail -- all the donks have to do is sit on the sidelines looking concerned and wait until the GOP electrocutes themselves.
"make the wall 100 feet high and top it with razor wire and have ceaseless military patrols along the 1,000 yard cleared area."
I don't know Mark. This sounds more like the Berlin Wall to me.
As long as Bush keeps pushing his stupid "guest worker" program, which is really just a euphemism for amnesty, then he and all the republicans are in deep doo-doo. All republicans except Tom Tancredo and a very few others.
This is from a life-long Republican!
Bush keeps repeating the lie over and over: "the jobs that Americans won't do."
Bush rhetoric, courtesy of Joseph Goebels!
As certainly as Hitler destroyed Germany, Bush is determined to do likewise to the USA with his illegal immigration policy!
How to solve the problem? Clamp down on the employers -- which was PROMISED in the 1986 IRCA law, and never implemented.
And then deport QUICKLY all those who do not self-deport.
Yes, the nation is angry. VERY angry.
Bush, wake up! The CITIZENS are paying your salary. The CITIZENS are your boss! NOT Vicente Fox!
There's no point in bailing out the boat if you're just going to let the water keep coming through the hole. Fix the hole first and then worry about what to do with the water that got into the boat.
"I don't know Mark. This sounds more like the Berlin Wall to me."
Thats because your ignorant. The Berlin wall was to keep people in this is to keep people out. I know its hard for your simple mind to grasp but its a fundemental difference.
Read a history book you moron, it might help.
Yes, you can round them up. The companies they work for should foot the bill. After all, they cheated, they should pay.
I support the idea that Mexico needs to improve its system of economy.
Free Mexico!
[blockquote]Gozer, through the impossible complexities of your argument, you made my point quite eloquently. [/blockquote]
I thought I put it simply, but thank you none the less.
I agree, the whole "Jobs Americans won't do" line really pisses me off. Anyone seen the Discovery Channel show "Dirty Jobs?" OMG! If there are Americans that will do THOSE jobs, there are Americans that'll do anything. So don't give me the BS that we NEED illegals to do the work of Americans.
The numbers are wrong! the minority is the majority against criminalizing immigration. The US anglos, are experiancing a tase of their own medicine "Manifest Destiny" by Mexico. Soon the whole US is going to eating tacos Ha,Ha,Ha.
Mexican immigrants, legal and illegal, provide huge economic benefits to the nation. We cannot just deport illegals without severely disrupting many industries. It's not just the economic benefit from the work they do. The multiplier effect results in many more jobs being created to serve those 12 million immigrants.
Consider just one industry: construction. The Center for Immigration Research, which supports removal of illegal immigrants, estimates that 1.2 million illegals work in construction. If we could somehow deport all these workers, who would do the construction work? The unemployment rate is 4.8%, generally considered a full employment level. Where will the replacement construction workers be found? Housing will come to a severe halt. How will D.R. Horton, Pulte, and U.S. Home pay all their legal employees - the accountants, marketers, salepeople, etc.? With no homes being constructed, what will lumber companies do with all their lumber?
Deporting 12 million illegal immigrants - including the million workers and their families - would be an economic nightmare.
Jobs that Americans won't do?? Americans were doing the jobs before the Hispanics came here.. Many people on unemployment would like to have these jobs.
i see no good comming from this immagration thing, how many are or will be criminals,..what about sterilization program, this country ( u.s.) is all ready over populated. this is a fool's dream, an organized political crime, if revolution comes...remember all politicians and theirs, all the rich and theirs, ( because they are pulling the strings)not paranoid on my part,..this is fuuny, and as shear as fast food glass.
Jobs Americans don't want. Give me a break! Plants like Hormel in Nebraska are laying off American workers, while hiring Mexicans at one third the wage and no benefits. Companies that want to hire only Americans can't compete, end up hiring Mexicans to survive. The "jobs Americans don't want" comment is like saying companies will only move to Mexico and China,if their employees don't want to work. Wake up and smell the Chili.
Jobs Americans don't want. Give me a break! Plants like major name brand company in Nebraska are laying off American workers, while hiring Mexicans at one third the wage and no benefits. Companies that want to hire only Americans can't compete, end up hiring Mexicans to survive. The "jobs Americans don't want" comment is like saying companies will only move to Mexico and China,if their employees don't want to work. Wake up and smell the Chili.