Mark, the principal saw students using American and Mexican flags inappropriately, so he banned students from bringing any flags inside the school.

The flag still flies above the school and hangs in each classroom.

The principle has an obligation to keep an evironment that is safe and suitable for learning. He felt that banning students from bringing Mexican or American flags to school was a temporary step he could take to ensure such an atmospher. I have no reason not to think he's acting in the best interest of the school.

Why exactly do you want him fired?

Can anyone wear the flag "inappropriately"? I don't see wearing the flag as oppressive under any circumstances.

"The American and Mexican flags do not stand on par within the United States - Old Glory is never a symbol of anything other than glory and liberty of the United States of America."

Specially if its a tacky bikini.

Mark:

Stop worshipping an idol.

Wade

Normally, I agree with you, but in this case, i think the principal made the right decision. His job is to keep the students safe while they learn, and banning the Mexican flag only right now would not do that. Which says a lot about the people who think they deserve to live in this country.

mark....you're wrong on this one
by not banning all flags
the kids would be inciting violence by rubbing the u.s. flag in the others faces
but you're so blinded by some misguided loyalty you can't think straight on this one

Tom -

Hell, yes. I've seen the American flag sewn onto the rear end of tattered jeans, displayed worn and frayed, and, displayed upside down. And with demeaning comments. It can be very "inappropriate".

Mark, while I usually agree with you, in this case I don't. I think the students needed to be told that displaying the flag should be a mark of respect and love for country, not a way to taunt people from other countries. If the principal made the decision that the students wearing or displaying the American flag were doing so to get a response from Mexican students, he was right to keep flags out of the fray.

As long as the American flag is still flown over the school and is in every classroom, the message is clear that this is the flag of our country, and should be respected and treated as such.

So - we are willing to accept another restriction on free speech? People can't wear, display, or carry OUR flag? The flag that people won the Medal of Honor defending? The flag from Iwo Jima, and the moon? Go to hell. If MY kids were at that school they would have my permission to carry it - AND to defend it by force.

The Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution to allay the fears of people who thought that people in government, whether it be with good intentions or not would not be allowed to trample on the rights of citizens of this nation. I am often awed by the fact that SO many people want to control what I do and say.

I dare say that confiscating American flags (something the Japanese did on Guam and in the Philipines) is the crime here.

Mark, they had a similar incident here in Arizona. Students placed the Mexican flag over the American flag on the flagpole. Anglo students took the Mexican flag down and burned it, which almost caused a riot among the Mexican students. Principal also banned flags. Parents phoned in and his ban was recinded. What got me was that the parent quoted in the AZ Daily Star (Tucson) said that the Mexican students should be allowed to fly their flag as they are proud of their country as we are! What utter nonesense! I am 70 years old, with family from other countries as well, BUT, they came to the US, learned the language, took the requisite civics and history lessons and became citizens, they became AMERICANS, not hyphenated Americans. They were grateful and proud to be here. Our "tolerance" is going to destroy the "United" States! The protests have been a wake-up call to the US, and we had best get tough. I'm sorry, but carrying signs saying that "that the Anglos are the illegal aliens" , "We just came to take back our country" , "Give us back what you stole!" are not signs that they have any desire to just make a better life and become citizens. We have a crisis that neither party wants to touch, but someone better have the guts before it is too late. We are starting to feel like we live in a foreign country here!

"So - we are willing to accept another restriction on free speech? People can't wear, display, or carry OUR flag? The flag that people won the Medal of Honor defending? The flag from Iwo Jima, and the moon? Go to hell."

That's some wrath you got there, Kahn.

I find it funny you're so Gun-ho about free speech, but defend Mark's very loose definition of treason, which would make a lot of constitutionally-protected free speech treason if ever adopted by the US judiciary.

Actually, Kahn, I got my threads mixed up. I didn't see you support Mark's definition of treason. My apologies.

Tom - too bad. And you used your wrath joke also. :)

Tom,

The American flag is never to be banned, ever. If the principal thinks kids are improperly displaying the flag, then he can call an assembly and instruct on proper display...but to ban Old Glory along with Mexico's dish rag of a flag? I think not...

Lenny and Almiranta,

How can the American flag be rubbed in someone's face in America? Everyone here loves and honors the flag, right? If they don't, they should get out...anyone offended by the US flag is unworthy of being an American.

I served under that flag...as did my father and grandfather...YOU DON'T BAN IT.

Mark,
I would NEVER wear an American Flag.
Fly it, yes. But never wear it.
It is the symbol of a nation, not a fashion statement.
These days, we see the flag as a decoration for guitars, skateboards, and T shirts.
We see it sold to support abortion, African Relief, and local charities.
Once it becomes a commodity, it becomes no more meaningful than a happy face.
It's time to make the flag a Flag again.

"The American flag is never to be banned, ever"

Can it be banned as kindling?

"but to ban Old Glory along with Mexico's dish rag of a flag? I think not..."

Now we get to what its really about.

Hick,
I proudly wear the symbol on the lapel of my jacket everyday to work. I've worn it there since it was first placed there by someone I greatly respect many years ago. Nothing could have more meaning to me than that flag.

Thing is, the Mexicans are protesting in the wrong country. They seem to want to come north and establish a northern outpost without assimilating. Well, lets look at that. Look at how screwed up Mexico is. They want to recreate that messed up and corrupt system here? Why?

They should be marching in Mexico City - not L.A. If they want a just and fair system steeped in Mexican culture and language then there is the ideal place. mexico. They need to throw a little revolution down there.

Trivia note - the Red stripe on the Marine NCO and Officers Dress Blue uniforms signifies what? It is called the blood stripe - and signifies the blood shed by Marines who stormed Chapultepec Castle. (The Halls of Montezuma...)

Shipley: Banning the american flag creates a safe environment.

Jim: I don't see how wearing the American Flag can be inappropriate.

Shortz: Old Glory is never a symbol of anything other than glory and liberty of the United States of America...Specially if its a tacky bikini.

wade: Stop worshipping an idol.

and my personal favorite:

Lenny: Ban all flags...you're so blinded by some misguided loyalty you can't think straight on this one.

Misguided loyalty???!!!!!

A review of the leftist comments above indicate how laughable it is that these people call themselves patriots.

"But to ban Old Glory along with Mexico's dish rag of a flag? I think not..." -Noonan

Ahh, now I see. Very eloquent, Mark - I must hand it to you.

The idol worshipping continues ...

*Sigh*

We've had similar incidents here in Southern California as well. Students taking the American flag down and hoisting up the Mexican Flag. My first question is, who brings a flag to school other than to "make a statement?"

I don't know about you but I never carried a flag to school. It's not like I could display it properly so why bring it?

I'm a bit torn on this subject. Here in SO Cal the faculty/staff have basically just been "stepping back" and allowing the kids to "express their feelings" about the whole thing. We've also had several fights between blacks/latinos and latinos/whites in several schools throughout the inland empire. The entire situation is getting out of hand.

I can see what the principle is doing and I can agree with that. I can also see where Mark is coming from and how the American flag is a symbol of our country and those who allow us to live in it.

Since this isn't expected to be perminent I think I could live with this restriction. If it helps keep things calmer at school mores the better. We don't need more riots/fights like we've had here in So Cal.

Mark said Everyone here loves and honors the flag, right? If they don't, they should get out...anyone offended by the US flag is unworthy of being an American. I served under that flag...as did my father and grandfather...YOU DON'T BAN IT.

Do you really believe that twaddle. love and honor a flag, unworthy if you don't, get out of america if you don't agree with me.

Mark,you're really off the deep end sometimes. did you suffer some sort of head injury while "serving under the flag" a rediculous phrase I might suggest.

What I love and honor has little to do with the flag. I don't stand up for the flag unless I embarrass those around me, I don't say the pledge of allegiance, at least not since I was a boyscout, I don't care if they leave under god in or take it out of the pledge (reminds me of furniture polish), I don't wear a flag lapel pin and those that do I think are the new pharisees or was it sadducees who prayed just to be seen doing it.

I think it might be time for your rightous indignation to be given a once over. Start with people first - not rules, not governance, not unjust or just wars for that matter. People matter that is all that matters - by virtue of sucking air we are entitled to life liberty and the pursuit etc etc. Not as you define it, not as the bible or any other scripture defines it but as you yourself come to understand the phrase.

You know the proper disposition of a flag is to burn it, well I burned all mine.

When I salute the flag, I always think of it as the symbol of America's values and way of life. I'm not worshipping any idol or making a big fuss over some cloth and linen. I just wish to show respect to America's values and culture. This is what every flag, to me, is...a symbol of an amalgam of what that country is.

Raising the Mexican flag over the American flag while inside the United States, theresore, shows that you respect Mexico's society better than America's. When illegal immigrants choose to come into the country and pillage its resources, and not even bother to respect its culture, it shows a sort of sinister piracy on their part. They can raise the Mexican flag as much and as high as they want if they're in Mexico or legal citizens, but doing it while illegal shows utter disrespect for the country and its laws.

Mark, sometimes you really can not see the light of reason, can you? A flag is just a flag. The symbolism is what matters. PEOPLE and virtues are what matter. And, how nice of you to ridicule other countries, such as Mexico, by insulting their flag. If their flag means as much to them as you say ours does to you, you have basically just insulted Mexico and all its people and its culture. You are also assuming that you are above them and this "America, love it or leave it" BS means that America is great and all others are subservient. How arrogant! America has FLAWS, Mark, just like any other country. And to think that you are angry at the Mexicans for acting like they are better. Geez, stop the schoolyard, "who's better" crap and look at the real issue. Like 9/11, for instance. Funny how everyone went out and bought flags after 9/11, yet continued to live like idiots. How many people flying Old Glory at that time might have been living like normal, drunk, beating their wives, etc. Blind patriotism is stupid, Mark, can you not see that? You have to LIVE the ideal, not just pay lip service to it with a flag. And LIVING in freedom means that your "love it or leave it" crap is just that - crap. TRUE freedom means the right to disagree with others, and your own government, in order to better yourself and your country. It DOES NOT mean to get brainwashed and try to brainwash others into your way of thinking. Understand?

BTW - in many ways we DID steal parts of Mexico - Texas for one. And actually, Mark, America actually, by right of who was here first, belongs to the NATIVE AMERICANS!!!!!! Europeans did take from others to create this country. Read your history. The Imperialism of the 18th and 19th centuries forged a new land, but took from others without care or concern.

Did you or anyone you know ever walk down the Trail of Tears, Mark. "America, love it or leave it" - just ask the Indians, the natives that America was stolen from. They could leave, but where else is there to go. here is their HOME. You are from Nevada, right? Why not tell the next Native American you see to "love it or leave it." See what he or she might have to say about it.

Robert,

America belongs to the Americans; it is a foolish bit of hate-mongering to try and rehash the sins of the past and apply them to modern times. However we came into possession of the land, it is ours now...and no one may take it from us.

The flag is a symbol - and I'll not have it denigrated or desecrated...and, yes, I have nothing but contempt for Mexico at this juncture - a bunch of cruel, corrupt oligarchs maintaining themselves in power off the backs of workers sent north...no thought of reforming their worthless government or corrupt economy...just keep things going as they are, at least long enough for the current crop of cretins to squirrel away money in foreign bank accounts before the revolution comes.

Its a dish rag of a flag until it has something to be proud about...and it has been quite a long time since Mexico, in official act, has done something worthy of a proud flag.

Mark, check here

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/4/3/16530/04000

good ol jeb bush was waving the Mexican flag to get re elected.

BTW your comment Its a dish rag of a flag until it has something to be proud about...and it has been quite a long time since Mexico, in official act, has done something worthy of a proud flag. is typically arrogant but could be my sentiments about the us flag.

"Its a dish rag of a flag until it has something to be proud about...and it has been quite a long time since Mexico, in official act, has done something worthy of a proud flag."

But Mark doesn't hate...

Mark, and you say my sensitivities towards Native Americans and other cultures is hatemongering if I bring up the TRUTHS of the past 300 years.

Yet you show apparent hate and contempt for Mexico.

Mark, you are a HYPOCRITE, and an arrogant one at that.

Stop the grade school BS and act like an ADULT!!!

Lay off the Kool-Aid too...

Tom,

No, I don't - but if Mexico had a reason to be proud of its flag, then millions of Mexicans wouldn't be here in the US...it is a failed nation; it can make itself great, but only if the people of Mexico show the courage and resolution to make it so.

Robert,

To dredge up the past - especially a half-true picture of the past - is to just hate-monger, not show sensitivity. There are, as is said, two sides to every story...and at any rate, we can't go back into the past and fix it, and neither can people living today be held responsible for the crimes of the past.

I, for one, am sick to death of all this slander on America, its history and its heros. Only a fool would say that it'd be better if America didn't control the territory it currently controls...only a fool, that is, would be happy if the Great Plains were still inhabited by millions of buffalo and a few natives scratching out an existence...

Mark, The Native Americans who live in trailer courts on reservations in ABSOLUTE POVERTY and are alcoholics might feel differently. Are they "fools?"

America has done some good things, but it has also done some bad things. To point out some of the bad is NOI NOT NOT NOT slander, it IS IS IS IS being an American. To question things IS American.

You are right in some ways though - absolute hatred for Amnerica is wrong. But, Mark, absolute blind patriotism at any cost is ALSO wrong.
We need something in the middle. Can you not see that? There have been good things and many heroes throught american history, but we are NOT a perfect country. We have made many mistakes as well. But you REFUSE to see that.

My project for you is this - if you choose to accept it. You do not have to slander America, but you must research for me and find me two examples of things that have been wrong with America in the last 100 years. And they CANNOT be things that liberals have done wrong or democrats have done wrong. You have to find me 2 instances where Conservatives and Republicans have done something that hurt the fabric of this nation.

For the record, I could provide you with two examples of how democrats have hurt things, but I need you to put the shoe on the other foot for a minute and realize that your own party IS NOT perfect.

For the record, I am white as can be (although I do have some Cherokee in my ancestry) and I am neither Democrat or Republican. I generally feel more liberal, but I live my life very Conservatively - no drink, no drugs, no promiscuity, etc.. I may not believe in a Christian God, but I live my life as more of a Chistian than most Christians do. I am not perfect, and make mistakes, but I try to learn from them. I am a good person. And I am not a Christian or a Conservative. Mark, you seem to believe that if I say I feel more liberal-minded, that I am evil. But I AM a good person. why do you hate liberals so, Mark? Why?

Can you , Mark , prove that you can see things from another point of view and admit that Conservatives are not perfect. if you cannot, it will prove to me and everyone here that you ARE brainwashed and arrogant.

Do you accept my challenge???

Robert,

I, on the other hand, fall far short of the Christian ideal - and I wish I could be as good a Christian as some I know.

That said - You asserted that this land by right belongs to the Native Americans...can they produce a title to it? Where, precisely, did the ancestors of current Native Americans live...can anyone provide a geographic location where a particular person's particular ancestor lived? Additionally, as part of my family has been here for more than 300 years, when do I become "native"? How many generations does it take to become indigenous to an area?

With blood, sweat and tears and many a crime, but also with sublime courage and generosity, this great nation was built - it is the way it is, and our only task is to preserve it and improve it...and we can't improve it if we're forever looking backwards, trying to figure out who's ancestor did what to whom. IT IS IRRELEVANT. To bring it up is just to stir up hatred and resentment to no good purpose.

Learn about the crimes of the past in order that you may avoid them now and in the future - but don't dwell on them. Stack up against the loss of the old way of life the fact that not a single person living today would want to live that old way of life, once they knew precisely what it means...and here it is good to keep in mind that the pre-Columbian Indians of the North American plains were stone-age hunter-gatherers...try living like that for two days, and you'll thank God that Columbus happened.

Nursing ancient grudges doesn't help...instead of simmering in frustration that someone's ancestor did your ancestor wrong, why not figure out a way to live a better future?

Well, Mark, I can truly agree with you there. The best we can do IS make a better future. But what you never seem to realize is that we need ALL schools of thought, and ALL people who are trying to do good things, to make things work.

You generally deem all Liberal thought to be in error, and that is NOT making a better future. Perhaps if people like Native Americans were given a fair shake, they might be able to make a better future for themselves. But most are caught in a cyclical pattern of poverty and constraint under this system, while their culture and old ways are diminished. Actually, Mark, the Native americans had one of the BEST ways of life. They may have had primiitive means, and they certainly had flaws, but they also wasted NOTHING of their limited resources, and made the best of the environment. They had a use for everything, and placed much less value on money and much more value on human life and Mother Nature. In today's Capitalist America we waste horribly and place a very low value on human life and way too high a value on The HOLY DOLLAR, political differences, and power - who gets to the top the fastest.
Perhaps we could learn a lot from the Native Americans, don't you think?
Also, isn't it interesting that they are the one group in this country who are quiet and humble about their issues. Blacks and Hispanics are always up in arms about how they are treated wrongly, but the group who was treated worst of all stays silent - how's that for humble? You don't see any Native American rap stars riding around in Hummers, do you? And then talking about how they are held down while they see millions of records - interesting.

But you still haven't provided me examples of errors of Conservatives, have you?

Think on these things, Mark, the Liberal way of life is NOT always bad, and the Conservative way is NOT always good. I just want to see if you can see through your ridiculous Liberal hatred and see the good there, as well as the bad in many Conservatives. If you cannot, then you are looking through VERY rose-colored glasses. To TRULY build a better America and a better future, NOBODY can be looking through rose glasses. REALITY must be the basis for creating a better future....think on this....