"something which will firmly smack down these anti-war leftists who are harming our ability to win the war."

I know you'll probably never be able to see this, but the Bush administration is the #1 culprit in harming our ability to "win" the war in Iraq.

There are many examples, but this is the greatest...not planning for the insurgency.

"We're going to be greeted as liberators."

This is the attitude of an administration that disbanded the iraqi army after the war and didn't have enough troops to provide basic security after the war. This is giant mistake acknowledged by both side of the political aisle.

Where's your outrage at that lack of planning?

Feingold is not hampering the war on terror in the least. The censure would in no way hinder our ability to wage the war. It's a move to respect the rule of law and not allow the president to break the law with no consequence.

You accuse Feingold of damaging the unity of the country. If you read or listen to his remarks on the censure proposal, then read your remarks about it, it's plain to see who is 10x more divisive... you.

Tom, it is no use. He/they don't want to hear it.

Calling for the censure of Feingold just makes you look bitter. "He wants to censure Bush so lets try to censure him!" It is like they are back in 5th grade.

It is the same as saying the leak of the illegal wiretapping is giving information to the Terrorists..... as if they didn't know we were trying to secretly get information from them.
It is the same as saying anyone disagreeing with the President is supporting the Terrorists.

Some bozo on this site yesterday said Feingold shouldn't be censured, he should be held for Treason!

But I may have figured this out.... this hits so close to their hearts they've all just gone crazy.
It is the only explanation.

Shipley,

I'm sure Fiengold's position will help him with the moonbat base such as yourself.

However, if what you say is true, why did the demo leadership block a vote??

Could it be that they realize that this censure move would be political suicide at the polls?

Apparently they understand that the American people don't believe that the President has broken any law.

...but please persist, why censure when you can impeach? Have at it.

Mark, I do not want him Censured. I want him out there in front of microphone’s doing what he is doing, promoting left wing liberal agenda's All that does is remind voters why they supported President Bush the 2nd time around. Democrats are weak at best on defense; their pretend concern over security over the ports was just that. Pretend. Now they are back showing their true colors trying to censure a president trying to find out who is trying to kill us.

Democrats and liberals can win only when they try to be a Conservative ( strong on defense ), but that is not where their minds and hearts are. I have been doing the happy dance since he opened the gate. Thank you Senator more please.

You know what messages that Feingold's and Mark's (if anyone is dumb enough to propoase it) Censures will say over seas?

They will say that the American Congress has nothing better to do than slander the names of members of the American Government.

The call for Censure of Bush by Feingold is just a small political ploy, but a "counter censure" of Feingold,, which was instigated by Right-wing blogs, would just be short-sighted and childish.

"but a "counter censure" of Feingold,, which was instigated by Right-wing blogs, would just be short-sighted and childish.
"

ah, only problem, Mark is not a US Senator. I will concede one, no make that two things to you.

Feingold was 1) short-sighted and 2) childish when he instigated this ploy. And it is a plot to get folks like KKKKos ( aka never won a damn thing ) to pony up some dough.

What kind of government, i.e. Congress, spends most of its time and energy hoping the President and his administration will fail? They go way beyond asking for accountability. Meanwhile their own appropriations work doesn't get done until the last minute and is full of pork, passing blame for excessive spending to the White House. I believe they should have the same term limits as the President. They also should not have to spend much of their time raising campaign funds. I am really thinking seriously about a Reform Party, aimed mostly at changing how Congress operates.

What kind of government, i.e. Congress, spends most of its time and energy hoping the President and his administration will fail?

My only hope is the President will follow the law.

They go way beyond asking for accountability.

Accountability and oversight.

Meanwhile their own appropriations work doesn't get done until the last minute and is full of pork, passing blame for excessive spending to the White House.

The Republican Congress and the Republican President are in charge of controling spending.

I believe they should have the same term limits as the President.

We do. Two terms or eight years, thank God.

They also should not have to spend much of their time raising campaign funds.

Support campaign reform.

"What kind of government, i.e. Congress, spends most of its time and energy hoping the President and his administration will fail?"

See 1990s Washington DC...

Paul-

What Mark is advocating is for Frist to call for a censure of Feingold. That is one of the things that I said would be short-sighted and childish. Feingold's call for censure was too, but you guys have to ask yourselves, "Are we better than that?"

Georgia,

Feingold's call for censure was a cynical political ploy to garner support on the left for his 2008 Presidential bid...my call for censure is to punish Feingold for playing politics with national security. These are two very different motivations - Feingold's was for personal advancement, mine is in service to the nation.

Georgia,

You should always keep in mind that I swore an oath to defend the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, back in 1983...and while my time in active military service was limited, there was and is no time limit on that oath I swore, so help me God. I must carry out my oath now and forever.

Tom,

And I pity you - you simply cannot see that Feingold is playing you for a fool. He knew from the get-go that his censure motion wasn't going anywhere...he was just getting you all riled up and in a mood to donate...worked like a charm, from what I can see.

It is sad that you and so many others on the left cannot see the cynicism of Democratic leaders...Do you think they'll carry out your heart's content if they were to win? They'll stab you right in the back if they ever get back into power...because the American people aren't with the left, and the Democratic leadership is only interested in clawing on to power for personal benefit. Look what Clinton did to you over 8 years - you want more of that? Then by all means back Feingold...abandon your country just because there's a chance at hitting President Bush, whom you hate irrationally due to Gore's failed attempt to steal Florida in 2000...

Feingold's call for censure was a cynical political ploy to garner support on the left for his 2008 Presidential bid...my call for censure is to punish Feingold for playing politics with national security. These are two very different motivations - Feingold's was for personal advancement, mine is in service to the nation.

...

You should always keep in mind that I swore an oath to defend the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, back in 1983...and while my time in active military service was limited, there was and is no time limit on that oath I swore, so help me God. I must carry out my oath now and forever.
---Mark Noonan

Mark, I agree with you on Feingold's motivations, and I support your want to defend your country. Do you really think that a motion on the floor is the best way to do it? If you really want to "punish him," contribute money to his competitor next time he is up for election.

It's bad enough that Feingold is wasting the Senate's time with this crock, do you want to sink to his level?

Georgia,

He's a symbol of all that is wrong with the opposition to the war...he needs to be smacked down in order to demonstrate to the entire left that the serious elements in this country aren't having any more of their antics.

This is war, not some political game. Men are dying over in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the only thing any American should be doing is working for victory, not trying to score cheap political points.

"Tom,

And I pity you - you simply cannot see that Feingold is playing you for a fool."

Pity me all you want. Really don't care. I happen to think this is a good motion. You have republicans and democrats who believe the president broke the law. If you believe this, then you simply can't turn a blind eye toward it. Bush may have had good intentions, but he still broke the law.

Censure is a perfect solution. It really doesn't mean anything. It's basically a strongly worded letter, but it's symbolic importance is great. The president is not above the law.

Feingold has said in the past that we have to address the fact that the president broke the law. This is him doing just that. It's a good solution that will stop the debate about Bush skirting the FISA courts and focus it on reworking the NSA program.

We are a country of laws and we cannot turn a blind eye when the president breaks one of them. Censure would allow us to address it while not damaging Bush's presidency.

"Then by all means back Feingold...abandon your country just because there's a chance at hitting President Bush, whom you hate irrationally due to Gore's failed attempt to steal Florida in 2000..."

Abandon my country by demanding that rule of law be abided? Go screw yourself, Mark.

Go ahead and try and turn me into a misguided, american-hating, terrorist-supporting person if that makes you feel better. It's far from the truth. It's sad that you can't see that.

There are people on both the right and the left who give their opposition attributes they don't have so they can become "the enemy." It helps give their life purpose. These people are worthless... actually, more than worthless, they are destructive because they muddy our waters with crap like you write.

You write in vagaries, in attacks that skew reality into one where you're a great defender of "the american way." You're a little man, Mark. You need false attacks to help you feel big.

OK Mark..... and the Democrats are called unhinged, unglued, mean and angry? Have you looked in the mirror??????

Men and women ARE dying over in Iraq and they are fighting for Democracy. Let's have some Democracy here in the good ol' USA.
Dissent is good Mark. Like it or not, that is Democracy. Was there dissent when Clinton was in office? I sure as hell think so.
Democracy means there are equal branches of government to act as checks and balances. There is a law to the land that everybody must adhere to.
If you don't like people questioning the President too bad.

There are so many more important things to get done. So many things that have been conveniently pushed aside by the Republican led Congress and this Administration in the name of war.

Mark, support the safe return of troops by admitting they should OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS get out of there. Notice I didn't say immediate withdrawal. Every time someone says anything about withdrawal you righties all think we say immediate withdrawal. We don't. We mean over the next several months.
After all... if it was up to some of the people on this site, we should be going into Iran in the next few months, so we better re-group.

Mark claims: Feingold's call for censure was a cynical political ploy to garner support on the left for his 2008 Presidential bid...my call for censure is to punish Feingold for playing politics with national security. These are two very different motivations - Feingold's was for personal advancement, mine is in service to the nation.

You are providing a grotesque disservice to your nation, by reflexively defending a President to whom you are more loyal than you are to the rule of law and the constitutional political order on which this nation was founded. Your motivation is to defend Bush, at all costs, and I find that contemptable.

Russ Feingold is now the only politician I can conceive of voting for in the '08 presidential campaign. You could not be more wrong about him.

When I lived in WI in the 80s, he was a state senator. A close friend of mine, a pro-life Republican, turned to him for help pertaining to a non-partisan matter of corruption in a state institution. She did that because altho he is liberal, Feingold had a reputation for being absolutely dedicated to ethics and legality. He helped her, to her eternal appreciation, and it didn't assist him politically at all to do so.

George Bush is violating the law. For all the reasons that Feingold was the only Democrat in the U.S. Senate to vote against dismissing Clinton impeachment hearings without first hearing the eivdence, Feingold is willing to buck significant anti-boat-rocking sentiment in his party wrt the illegal NSA program. He is winning few friends in the DNC by doing what he is.

Russ Feingold is first and foremost a man of principle. In many respects he is too liberal for my taste, but after 5+ years of big govt, Bush populism -- and I read Iraq the Model, and can see from their posts how grossly Bush has mismanaged the war I had supported -- and that insane, anti-federalist intervention in the Schiavo matter, I'm done with the Bush/Frist GOP.

If I'm to have big govt, and no respect for states rights, let it at least come from a competent man of principle like Russ Feingold. At least he obeys and manifestly respects the law.

Russ Feingold is a Democratic traitor to America. Censure him.

"You are providing a grotesque disservice to your nation, by reflexively defending a President to whom you are more loyal than you are to the rule of law and the constitutional political order on which this nation was founded. Your motivation is to defend Bush, at all costs, and I find that contemptable."

Well put, Mona. I couldn't have put it any better myself. What you wrote applies to not only Mark, but every other Sheep on this site - their blind loyalty to many things, whether it be a party line (Bush), an "oath," (military), or a religion (Jesus). They are incapable of using reason & logic when making a decision.

Bush condones torture & misled the nation into an illegal war? Doesn't matter - he's a Republican, we're sticking with him.

Their great enemy, Science, takes a stand for evolution? Doesn't matter, some really old book of fairy tales (aka the Bible) says otherwise.

They have been brainwashed beyond repair, and it's a sad thing for sure.

VERY well put Mona and maf53.
It really is amazing and I've posted it here a bunch of times. It doesn't matter what the President does... he is right.
You know. I don't remember who posted the blog about how Democrats can't get a unified message and we are all losers for that. I think that just means people in the Democratic party THINK FOR THEMSELVES. We do not blindly follow the leader. We are not sheep.
How many people (including myself) have said on this site that Clinton should have been held accountable. Democrats were against the witch hunt for Clinton, but for punishing him for lying.

I've posted this before as well...every rightie should just take a step back and look at the issues. I'm not asking you to back democrats, I am asking you to objectively take a look at everything this Administration has botched up.
Just once take a step back and you might actually see everything is not NEARLY as rosy as the President makes things out to be.

Feingold does not have the support of his party, but he managed to collect support from

Tom Shipley, Slipgrid, Mona, maf53, Sick of Lies

Mona,

All Feingold is doing is playing politics with the war. Its just a thing with liberals - they are more interested in advancing themselves than anything else. And all a liberal has to do to get a pass from his liberal supporters is to SAY the right things...how do you think Kennedy and Byrd keep going? Do you really think that Ted Kennedy believes the stuff he says? That bloated alchoholic believes in one thing - Ted Kennedy, and he gets a pass on his drunken womanizing because he supports abortion on demand.

Liberals can be bought quite cheaply...I could buy their support. If I had a mind, I could start up a blog, renounce my support for President Bush and OTHERWISE HOLD TO EVERYTHING ELSE I HOLD TO and liberals would suddenly think I'm the smartest and best man who ever lived.

Tom,

I am, indeed, a little man - just a mote in God's eye...of no particular importance, eventually to die and become less than nothing in this world.

What of it? You're incensed by what I write, which means I'm striking home.

Mark writes: All Feingold is doing is playing politics with the war. ...
Liberals can be bought quite cheaply...I could buy their support.

Feingold is not addressing the war; he is addressing the rule of law. Afghanisitan and Iraq are overseas, and FISA does not apply to communications on those battlefieds. To the extent there is a "war" here, it will go on for decades, and we cannot both institutionalize law-breaking with the excuse of the exigencies of war until 2050, and remain the nation we are. Simply scraming "we are at war!" won't play with me, and won't carry over in the next elections among the public at large. Terrorists are not going to be allowed to rupture the very order of our political arrangements, not if I have anything to say about it.

But even so, FISA, on its face, obtains in time of war. Russ Feingold is pointing out that FISA dictates how anyone, including the President, may conduct surveillance of the sort Bush admits he is conducting. Bush admits he is violating FISA. Thus, Bush is violating a criminal statute.

I expect our President, between now and 2050, to oeby the law. So does Russ Feingold. Whether he is a liberal Democrat or not is irrelevant. Whether Ted Kennedy is a drunk who thinks abortion should be mandatory, is also irrelevant.

You seem to adhere to a cartoon construct of what all liberals and all Democrats are. Daniel Patrick Moynihan was a liberal Democrat, and I greatly admired him. I also often admire liberal Nat Hentoff. Harry Truman instituted the loyalty screening that rid the federal govt of domestic Communist spies. None of those men could be bought. Nor could Feingold be.

Based on all I know about Russ Feingold, he is a man of character and principle. Ethics violations and law-breaking have always bothered him -- including Clinton's -- and what he is doing in holding Bush accountable is entirely in keeping with his life-long habits and beliefs.

Tom Shipley, Slipgrid, Mona, maf53, Sick of Lies
which if you think about it... Is his base for a presidential bid. Go Feingold, collect some more moonbats for your cause.

Of course, I knew it was only a matter of time. I've been dismissed as a "wingnut" on too many occasions to count, but stand up against George Bush on a serious matter like violating a criminal statute, and I morph into a moonbat.

I once deluded myself into believing that conservatives were serious about that rule of law thing, as well as suspicion of big govt and unchecked surveillance and/or police powers. But those were the Goldwaterites, and Bush populism has all but buried that more wholesome streak of the conservative movement.

What Feingold has done was so treasonous and flat out ugly, so much so that he deserves a kick in the ass! I'm so damned tired of these lousy unAmerican, traitor-democrats getting away with attacking the president during a time of war!

One thing republicans can be certain of is the weakness of the democratic party. They don't have to fight too much for anything thanks to their childish, brat friends in the media who cover for their insanity.

I want republicans kicking butt in Washington. When a dingbat like Feingold goes on national television asking for censure I want Frist to call him "a damned idiot and a traitor to his country!" To hell with civility! These people need their ass kicked so hard they'll be wearing it for a hat.

I'd like to see member after member going to the Floor of either Chamber and spray the words unAmerican-democrats, traitor-democrats....treason....etc., etc. until this sinks in with most Americans! What they've done in order to get their rear-ins back in the White House is one negative attack after another to keep Bush's poll numbers down. Pray to Almighty God we trounce these hack democrats in 2006!

Mona,

I could buy Feingold for a $100 donation or one laudetory post on a blog...

"What of it? You're incensed by what I write, which means I'm striking home."

I’m usually a very laid-back, happy-go-lucky guy. You cross a line with me, then my anger comes out.

Things that set me off include:

Hypocrites

Dumb people who talk down to people.

Mark, you fit both of these right now.

You’re fond of saying you don’t hate, that you’re a christian, that you love your enemies.

Well, with these Feingold’s posts you’re proving yourself full of shit. You’re ignoring the reality of the manner to demonize Feingold. This isn’t done out of love or any or reason you might claim, it’s done out of pride and hate. You hate the left. It’s obvious. If you at least admitt that, I’ll gain a little more respect for you.

"I could buy Feingold for a $100 donation or one laudetory post on a blog..."

So full of sh*t.

Mona writes an eloquent defense of Feingold citing his past actions and antedotal evidence.

You just make stuff up that fits your view of Feingold and liberals.

Laughable.