Bret Stephens over at Opinion Journal takes Francis Fukuyama to task over his mind-change on the liberation of Iraq - it is a great article and I recommend reading the whole thing, but one bit of it struck me as extra useful to bring up:
...there's no doubt that the war was deeply unpopular around the world. But it plainly wasn't so unpopular as to create the kind of catastrophic backlash Mr. Fukuyama imagines. Since the war, four of the most prominent members of the "Coalition of the Willing"--Britain's Tony Blair, Australia's John Howard, Denmark's Anders Fogh Rasmussen and Japan's Junichiro Koizumi--have been returned to office by large majorities. Canada's Paul Martin and Germany's Gerhard Schroeder have been cashiered in favor of Stephen Harper and Angela Merkel, both of whom campaigned on the explicit promise of better ties with the U.S. France's Jacques Chirac looks to be politically finished; Nicolas Sarkozy, his likeliest successor, is avowedly pro-American. In the Middle East, where we once had enemies in Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan, we now have pro-American, democratic governments.
What people say, what people do - always, always this is my refrain. Assorted pinkos shouting in the streets and Eurotrash elitists making slanderous remarks about the United States - this is what is covered in the news, and it gives the appearance that the whole world is on an anti-American bender. But then they go vote - and anti-Americanism doesn't amount to all that much. It only worked, barely, one time - in Schroeder's last election victory, and then he was tossed out the next time by an opponent pledged to better relations with the US.
This should tell everyone something. It won't tell the left everything because they just won't listen to anything that calls into question their worldview...but for those who aren't blinded by leftwing propaganda, what this means is that, just perhaps, we're not quite as hated as the left would have us believe.
Posted by Mark Noonan at March 13, 2006 12:26 AM
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Comments
Didn't work in Spain. They couldn't wait to get rid of a pro-USA government.
Just because other countries still love the $$$ generated by trade with the USA don't mistake it for an endorsement of US foreign policy. The sad fact is most people both at home and overseas are too enamoured of the mighty dollar to consider much else when casting their vote.
Perhaps the more instructive question to ask would be how many of those foreign populations would give GW a job approval rating like what he has in the USA?
Posted by: Lobes at March 13, 2006 12:48 AM
Lobes,
Ah, so opposition to the US is selfless, support fo the US is greed?
Yeah, there's a nuanced look at the world that takes into consideration all relevant factors...
Posted by: Mark Noonan at March 13, 2006 01:29 AM
You know, do the Frech care what the average American thinks of us? Brittish? Austrailians? Japanese? Chinese?
I doubt it. Or at least as much as I care what any of them thinks of my country.
Now you can take polls (you know how much I love those. ;) ), surveys, "person on the street" what have you but in the end it doesn't matter. All that matters is what people do or in this case what countries do.
Posted by:
Gozer at March 13, 2006 02:40 AM
I believe there is a real disconnect between the elites in Europe and the people. That's why there never is the huge display of anti-Americanism one would expect at Olympics, no huge crowds in the street.
The problem is that Europeans only hear negative nonsense and are in thrall to the elites because of the welfare state. That was the tradeoff and we need to be very careful here in the States, power to the elites for perks and benfits--a future to avoid.
I think the Administration could reach the people of Europe, because quite frankly, I think Europeans are afraid for their future and open to our message.
Posted by: Kate at March 13, 2006 04:16 AM
Besides Spain, there is a colony on the far side of Pluto, who now hates us.
Oh yeah, let us not forget Iran and Syria and North Korea. Spain is in good company
Posted by: vero at March 13, 2006 10:43 AM
Mark,
You forgot that Libya gave up it's nuke program and turned over all materials and equipment to the US because of our actions in Iraq. A step forward towards normal relations with the west, which will help their people in the long run.
Posted by:
Bob at March 13, 2006 10:47 AM
None of you actually read the accounts of the UK election from the UK did you? Not Mr. Stephens and not Mr. Noonan, certainly.
Tony Blair lost a large chunk of his majority because of his support for the Iraq War and only hung on to power because of the economic policies of his Chancellor who has a novel mix of socialist and free market economics. Go look at the reports from that period.
It looks very like the Conservatives may have a good chance at regaining a lot of their political power in the UK at the next election - purely because Britains Conservative Party has been opposed to the Iraq War the whole time. Notice too that the UK's Labor Govt. is being clear in saying they will not join any military action against Iraq. Most observers agree they will have to ditch their support for the Iraq occupation in order to hang on to government next time around. Chancellor Brown, Blair's heir apparent, has already made noises along those lines.
You assume too much when you assume that support for the Bush Doctrine is what brought any European politician electoral success.
Regards, Cernig @ Newshog
Posted by:
Cernig at March 13, 2006 12:07 PM
It should be pointed out that Harper also explicitly pledged not place Canadian troops in Iraq. Merkel may want better relations, but wants answers about rendition and illegal abductions of German citizen first.
Posted by: Chris at March 13, 2006 12:15 PM
Mark N.
Its rather simplistic to reframe my comment, as you state, to being:
"opposition to the US is selfless, support for the US is greed"
People consider many factors when they vote. Amongst things to consider is weighing up a political alliance with the USA against an Economic Alliance with the USA. In Spain they decided the money wasn't worth it. In Britain they did, but as Cernig points out, only just.
The reality is most countries decide to work for international political discourse within the framework of the UN which, despite its faults, is the best bet against the rise of a Global hegemony. By circumventing the UN system (as in Iraq 2) Bush has not cast himself as an evil emperor but instead destroys the international checks and balances which could prevent someone like China (for instance) becoming such a force.
People don't dislike America, I think you will find most foreigners like America and Americans.
What they dislike is the effect the brutal and dysfunctional US political system is having on international cooperation.
Gozer and Vero may not worry about what others think, but I doubt Bush was in India just to work on his cover drive.
Posted by: Lobes at March 13, 2006 08:49 PM
one other thing, Mark...
although you may actually hate citizens of the world who are critical of American policy, you shoul dprobably realize that they hate the policy (ok, and maybe Bush, Cheney and their ilk) but not Americans.
thats the diff between hysterical righty neocons and rational people. you hate people... rationalists hate the policy AND try to understand why there is a chunk of the population that eats up whatever their leaders say
Posted by: daver at March 14, 2006 03:10 PM
Lopes,
Bush was in India because while you have been saying the world hates us (or, if you like, hates Bush Administration policy), the actuality is far different.
India and the United States are drawing closer together because Indian and American policy is becoming one and the same thing. The natural alliance between the world's oldest and largest democracies is coming to be...and coming to be under the auspices of President Bush, the alleged cowboy.
Posted by: Mark Noonan at March 15, 2006 03:14 AM
daver,
I'm mystified about how you can draw out of this post that I hate people who are critical of the United States...
Posted by: Mark Noonan at March 15, 2006 03:15 AM
I wonder if ANYONE really doubts that world opinion about the United States is much worse now than before the Iraq invasion.
Posted by: Michael Bowen at April 10, 2006 03:07 PM
Post a comment

Didn't work in Spain. They couldn't wait to get rid of a pro-USA government.
Just because other countries still love the $$$ generated by trade with the USA don't mistake it for an endorsement of US foreign policy. The sad fact is most people both at home and overseas are too enamoured of the mighty dollar to consider much else when casting their vote.
Perhaps the more instructive question to ask would be how many of those foreign populations would give GW a job approval rating like what he has in the USA?
Lobes,
Ah, so opposition to the US is selfless, support fo the US is greed?
Yeah, there's a nuanced look at the world that takes into consideration all relevant factors...
You know, do the Frech care what the average American thinks of us? Brittish? Austrailians? Japanese? Chinese?
I doubt it. Or at least as much as I care what any of them thinks of my country.
Now you can take polls (you know how much I love those. ;) ), surveys, "person on the street" what have you but in the end it doesn't matter. All that matters is what people do or in this case what countries do.
I believe there is a real disconnect between the elites in Europe and the people. That's why there never is the huge display of anti-Americanism one would expect at Olympics, no huge crowds in the street.
The problem is that Europeans only hear negative nonsense and are in thrall to the elites because of the welfare state. That was the tradeoff and we need to be very careful here in the States, power to the elites for perks and benfits--a future to avoid.
I think the Administration could reach the people of Europe, because quite frankly, I think Europeans are afraid for their future and open to our message.
Besides Spain, there is a colony on the far side of Pluto, who now hates us.
Oh yeah, let us not forget Iran and Syria and North Korea. Spain is in good company
Mark,
You forgot that Libya gave up it's nuke program and turned over all materials and equipment to the US because of our actions in Iraq. A step forward towards normal relations with the west, which will help their people in the long run.
None of you actually read the accounts of the UK election from the UK did you? Not Mr. Stephens and not Mr. Noonan, certainly.
Tony Blair lost a large chunk of his majority because of his support for the Iraq War and only hung on to power because of the economic policies of his Chancellor who has a novel mix of socialist and free market economics. Go look at the reports from that period.
It looks very like the Conservatives may have a good chance at regaining a lot of their political power in the UK at the next election - purely because Britains Conservative Party has been opposed to the Iraq War the whole time. Notice too that the UK's Labor Govt. is being clear in saying they will not join any military action against Iraq. Most observers agree they will have to ditch their support for the Iraq occupation in order to hang on to government next time around. Chancellor Brown, Blair's heir apparent, has already made noises along those lines.
You assume too much when you assume that support for the Bush Doctrine is what brought any European politician electoral success.
Regards, Cernig @ Newshog
It should be pointed out that Harper also explicitly pledged not place Canadian troops in Iraq. Merkel may want better relations, but wants answers about rendition and illegal abductions of German citizen first.
Mark N.
Its rather simplistic to reframe my comment, as you state, to being:
"opposition to the US is selfless, support for the US is greed"
People consider many factors when they vote. Amongst things to consider is weighing up a political alliance with the USA against an Economic Alliance with the USA. In Spain they decided the money wasn't worth it. In Britain they did, but as Cernig points out, only just.
The reality is most countries decide to work for international political discourse within the framework of the UN which, despite its faults, is the best bet against the rise of a Global hegemony. By circumventing the UN system (as in Iraq 2) Bush has not cast himself as an evil emperor but instead destroys the international checks and balances which could prevent someone like China (for instance) becoming such a force.
People don't dislike America, I think you will find most foreigners like America and Americans.
What they dislike is the effect the brutal and dysfunctional US political system is having on international cooperation.
Gozer and Vero may not worry about what others think, but I doubt Bush was in India just to work on his cover drive.
one other thing, Mark...
although you may actually hate citizens of the world who are critical of American policy, you shoul dprobably realize that they hate the policy (ok, and maybe Bush, Cheney and their ilk) but not Americans.
thats the diff between hysterical righty neocons and rational people. you hate people... rationalists hate the policy AND try to understand why there is a chunk of the population that eats up whatever their leaders say
Lopes,
Bush was in India because while you have been saying the world hates us (or, if you like, hates Bush Administration policy), the actuality is far different.
India and the United States are drawing closer together because Indian and American policy is becoming one and the same thing. The natural alliance between the world's oldest and largest democracies is coming to be...and coming to be under the auspices of President Bush, the alleged cowboy.
daver,
I'm mystified about how you can draw out of this post that I hate people who are critical of the United States...
I wonder if ANYONE really doubts that world opinion about the United States is much worse now than before the Iraq invasion.