Our forefathers must be turning in their graves. It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion! How does selling Christmas stamps during the Christmas season constitute establishment of a religion. The post office can also sell stamps representing other faiths as well. I blame the government for caving in on all these ACLU threats. The government continues to follow the path of least resistence when they would probably win most of these battles with the ACLU.

Hello! This is my first comment on Blogs for Bush. I sent you an email, and then thought I would comment in this section. I work for the USPS in a small office in Indiana, and I can assure you that we DO have Christmas stamps, including the Madonna and Child stamps. I have received no instructions not to say "Merry Christmas." I don't know if this is happening in the larger offices, but in our neck of the woods, at least, we're still doing it as we always have. Just FYI.

Happy Holidays, eh? Well,I guess I won't be mailing any cards for Christmas then, as my Cards will be Christmas/Christian ones and they don't want anything Christian in a federal building (what a crock). This FREE nation better look again at how free it is as opposed to the nation in the 1950s.

The USPO is still a quasi-government organization and is controlled by the government. Isn't there some postal employee out there who will say enough and file a grievance for violation of his freedom of speech?

To all my Merry Christmas friends:

How many of you are now offended by the United States Post Office, and all the stores that are now going PC to "happy holidays". I am totally outraged that the ACLU (commie bastards) are getting away with doing away with our Merry Christmas. If you are offended, don't look, answer or participate in any of our sales, traditions or other Christmas offerings,you know, like celebrating the birth of our Lord, Jesus Christ!! All of you do-gooders, retailers, parents, grandparents aunts and uncles seem to forget "Jesus is the Reason" I would be happy with a family get together potluck dinner and
being with family and thankful for the past year and the future one to come, of which would not be possible without Jesus!! Our family does get a birthday cake and does sing "Happy Birthday" to our Lord. My step-dad used to put up a 6ft cake with a candle in the yard during the season also.

I want a phone in campaign to the Post Office headquarters telling them we want our Merry Christmas and Christmas stamps back, if they can do an islam/kawanzza etc stamps then we can have our Christmas ones back!!! Here is the phone number of the main office in DC 1-800-275-8777 and or the web site http://www.usps.com

Thank you

"Ok, so someone find me an athiest who was offended by the Christmas stamps so I can explain to him the concepts of "good manners" and "charity"."

In my experience its jews who don't like their kids being told merry christmas. They don't like to have to explain to their kids why they're not getting presents.

What I find funny in all of this is that we're supposed to have other people NOT be offended by our practice of christmans, but we get offended when other people ask to not be surrounded by christmas

I just bought Christmas stamps at a post office in Richmond, Virginia, but I think they are the same Virgin and Child that I got last year. For those of us who collect stamps as a hobby, this is a nuisance not to be able to get the usual stamps we've been accustomed to every year.

Jenifer, that's great news. I wonder if the larger more liberal USPS offices are the ones giving in to the minority of the "offended"?

OH, MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!!

Lord, I feel old.
Was it really that long ago that the churches were all complaining about the commercialization of Christmas? That all the Christmas this and Christmas that in the stores and on the street were sapping the spirituality from the holiday, leaving it as nothing but, as Lucy Van Pelt nicely put it, "the gift-getting season"?
And now we are complaining that Christianity is dying because WalMart doesn't have Merry Christmas banners. What a crock.
The sacrifice of our lord is not going to be lost just because I can't put His image on my mail, or can't buy presents in a store endorsed by Him.
My prayers and deeds define my religion, not this nonsense.

I miss the Christmases when I was a kid back in the late 60's early 70's. I blame the ACLU for this

Not True! Please see my latest post at http://www.squiggler.com/2005/11/still_christmas.html and Merry Christmas to all.

I miss the Christmases when I was a kid back in the late 60's early 70's. I blame the ACLU for this

Not True! Please see my latest post at http://www.squiggler.com/2005/11/still_christmas.html and Merry Christmas to all.

Folks,
This is simply not true.

Wanna buy a religious stamp? Click on this link.

http://shop.usps.com/cgi-bin/vsbv/postal_store_non_ssl/display_products/productDetail.jsp?OID=4849178

It is simply not factual to say that the USPS has banned Christmas stamps and the uttering of the phrase "Merry Christmas." Please stop reporting it as fact.

Amen to what The Small Town hick said. The day is a commemoration of the birth of Jesus. No tree, no fat man dressed in red, no stamps, no greetings.

If you don't believe that, then it hardly matters what else you do believe, and in what other ways your experience of 'Christmas' will be ruined if it's not referred to by the 'proper' name.

Hey folks, I'm a letter carrier, and NOBODY has given me any directives to not say Merry Christmas. And I deliver in one of the most liberal sections of very liberal Portland, OR. I think this story needs to be nixed.

shortz,

I've yet to come across a Jewish person who was offended with "Merry Christma"...of course, perhaps they kept their feelings to themselves...which, of course, is good manners given that I was merely trying to be nice.

It takes someone with a very hateful heart to, say, demand that a nativity scene be removed from the courthouse lawn, or that "under God" be taken out of the pledge...

A Jewish person is usually not offended by "Merry Christmas", and the idea that they do not give their children gifts at this time of year is ubsurd ... do you not understand the Hanukkah traditions?

If I may add to my comment above, it is not unusual for the USPS to use the same issue as the year before if they do not sell out. Besides, next year the rate will be 39 cents, and what does not sell this year will be destroyed. It really is as simple as that.

"It takes someone with a very hateful heart to, say, demand that a nativity scene be removed from the courthouse lawn, or that "under God" be taken out of the pledge.."

Or someone who just doesn't want the state in the business of establishing religion.

Shortz,

No, it takes a hateful heart...it takes the sort of heart I once had, as a young man, to ridicule a Hare Krishna...as if I had anything to feel superior about.

A charitible person allows things to happen which cause no harm...and "under God" causes no harm. It is either true, in which case you want to acknowledge it, or it is mummery addressed to an empty sky, in which case no harm is done...

"A charitible person allows things to happen which cause no harm...and "under God" causes no harm."

Other than the coercion of children into pledging to be under god. For chrissakes.

shortz,

From what I've read, a bit more than 90% of Americans believe in some sort of deity...meaning that you're only going to come across a child who is a non-believer in very rare instances. For those children who are instructed by their parents that there is no God, there should be this:

"Atheist Daughter: Daddy, today they made me say "under God" when we pledged allegiance to America!

Atheist Father: Well, honey, you've got to remember that almost everyone you meet believes in that God I've told you doesn't exist. Out of politeness we just allow them to say what they wish because words never hurt.

Atheist Daughter: Ok. Thanks Dad! By the way, what was the Christmas thing I heard the kids talking about today.

Atheist Father: Ummm...better ask your mother..."

An atheist who claims to be offended by mentions of God in public is of a type with a dissenting juror who has never met 11 such obstinant people in his life...

"From what I've read, a bit more than 90% of Americans believe in some sort of deity...meaning that you're only going to come across a child who is a non-believer in very rare instances."

10% isn't very rare. Its going to be 3 kids out of 30 in a classroom. Thats each time you walk into a classroom.

And it just plain old violates the establishment clause. This isn't about feelings being hurt, but about the constitution being violated.

"And it just plain old violates the establishment clause. This isn't about feelings being hurt, but about the constitution being violated."

Shortz: You've got to stop believing blindly what they teach you in school, write in the papers, and preach from the political platforms.
Actually the Constitution is being violated when religion is prohibited by the State! Not the other way around!
Read what the Bill of Rights specifically says:
Article 1:
"Congress SHALL MAKE NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
Our Founding Fathers were smart enough to include freedom of speech and of the press in the same amendement so that one could not be eliminated without the other.
Educate yourself Mr. or Mrs. or Ms Shortz.
The whole idea behind the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was that our rights were understood to be God given, and the government was designed to protect those rights and it was instructed to make NO LAW that would hinder them.
Would you rather have God given rights and a goverment designed to protect them, or a government give you your rights that could take them back anytime it wants? Can't have it both ways.
One is a true right, the other is only a privilege. I let you chose what you prefer.

This nation became great because the founders knew: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it...."
When you push God out, you become part of the problem, not the solution.

"And it just plain old violates the establishment clause. This isn't about feelings being hurt, but about the constitution being violated."

Shortz: You've got to stop believing blindly what they teach you in school, write in the papers, and preach from the political platforms.
Actually the Constitution is being violated when religion is prohibited by the State! Not the other way around!
Read what the Bill of Rights specifically says:
Article 1:
"Congress SHALL MAKE NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
Our Founding Fathers were smart enough to include freedom of speech and of the press in the same amendement so that one could not be eliminated without the other.
Educate yourself Mr. or Mrs. or Ms Shortz.
The whole idea behind the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was that our rights were understood to be God given, and the government was designed to protect those rights and it was instructed to make NO LAW that would hinder them.
Would you rather have God given rights and a goverment designed to protect them, or a government give you your rights that could take them back anytime it wants? Can't have it both ways.
One is a true right, the other is only a privilege. I let you chose what you prefer.

This nation became great because the founders knew: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it...."
When you push God out, you become part of the problem, not the solution.

Shortz,

What Jean-Claude said...

"And it just plain old violates the establishment clause. This isn't about feelings being hurt, but about the constitution being violated."

Shortz: You've got to stop believing blindly what they teach you in school, write in the papers, and preach from the political platforms.
Actually the Constitution is being violated when religion is prohibited by the State! Not the other way around!
Read what the Bill of Rights specifically says:
Article 1:
"Congress SHALL MAKE NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
Our Founding Fathers were smart enough to include freedom of speech and of the press in the same amendment so that one could not be eliminated without the other.
Educate yourself Mr. or Mrs. or Ms Shortz.
The whole idea behind the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was that our rights were understood to be God given, and the government was designed to protect those rights and it was instructed to make NO LAW that would hinder them.
Would you rather have God given rights and a government designed to protect them, or a government give you your rights that could take them back anytime it wants? You can't have it both ways.
One is a true right; the other is only a privilege. I let you chose what you prefer.

This nation became great because the founders knew: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it...."
When you push God out, you become part of the problem, not the solution.

""Congress SHALL MAKE NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion"

Exactly. There are two things government can't do: prohibit excercise and establish religion. City councils setting up religious exhibits are establishments.

Shortz,

Do you know what an establishment of religion is?

That is the problem with your lefties...you don't know history, so you don't know why things are. Anyone can tell you anything and as long as it seems plausible, you buy it.

Fact of the matter is, shortz, that an establishment of religion is, well, an ESTABLISHMENT of religion...something like the Church of England. That is what the Founders were trying to avoid, not prevent the erection of a cross on public land...heck, shortz, if a complete "wall of separation" is what they wanted, then why did the Founders open their deliberations with prayer? What you hold as true is nonsense unsupported by facts.

America is a great country because it is a country which holds that the rights of the people are God-given...unalienable rights; rights which no man may take away. When we speak of our nation as being a Christian nation that is what we really mean...that God stands above and has certain, absolute standards which may not be violated. You lefties, however, have re-written (in your minds) the Constitution - you have made our rights conditional upon agreement of other people. My life, my property and my views are mine only so long as they don't conflict with whatever fad has siezed hold of leftwing ideologues.

I prefer to stick to the Constitution as it is rather than the twisted views of leftwing revisionists.

Shortz says: "Exactly. There are two things government can't do: prohibit excercise and establish religion. City councils setting up religious exhibits are establishments."

So? It justly IS NOT a Federal jurisdiction. Take it up with your city council!
The Fed has nothing to do with it.
It is still: "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." Take it up with with the people in your state and your city council! If the voters don't want the displays, I don't have a problem with it; I just won't live in your state.
According to the Constitution, the Fed has nothing to do with this issue. It is back into the hands of the people and of their state governments.
Simple and beautiful.

"Do you know what an establishment of religion is?"

When government picks one as the correct one. That's what it does when it picks that kids will pledge things under god, when it picks to celebrate christmas a certain way.

"heck, shortz, if a complete "wall of separation" is what they wanted, then why did the Founders open their deliberations with prayer?"

What kind of prayer?

"When we speak of our nation as being a Christian nation that is what we really mean"

Judeo-Christian. God man, get your code words right. Gotta please the jews too!

shortz,

To mention God is to mention something that at least 90% of Americans believe in under various theologies...you're not picking one religion, but picking religion over no religion at all. If this offends, then the problem lies with the person in your bathroom mirror.

The prayer they used? Likely a non-denominational, though Protestant Christian prayer..back then about 90% of the people were specifically Christian and probably 99% believed in God. You secularists have been working on destroying the Christian underpinnings of our nation for quite a long time...and you've had some success. Keep at it, if you like...but if we're right about God, then we get to win in the end regardless, so you're wasting your time.

"If this offends, then the problem lies with the person in your bathroom mirror."

More specifically, with what they are being forced to do.

".but if we're right about God, then we get to win in the end regardless, so you're wasting your time."

Good. You can have your time up there. Here, we share.

Shortz,

Ah, but it is we who share with you..it is that overwhelming majority of the American population which believes in God...and especially that large majority which is Christian...which makes room for you in it's society. So, have a care - and show a bit of respect.

"Ah, but it is we who share with you..it is that overwhelming majority of the American population which believes in God...and especially that large majority which is Christian"

I thought my rights were god given, not given by the likes of you. But ok.

I still don't understand how Shortz can be okay with secularism overriding Christianity, but Christianity can't override secularism?

He/she talks about "sharing" but in fact he wants it all his/her way. The double-standard here is pretty staggering. And I doubt Shortz sees it.

Free speech and freedom of/from religion doesn't just apply to athiests, ya'll. I'm a white, anglo-saxon Protestant Christian and if athiests and God-haters can be free to do and say what they want, then so can I.

You can lobby to take down our Nativity scenes, our crosses and even take "In God We Trust" off of the currency. You still won't EVER erradicate those of us out there willing to stand up and speak the truth. Even if it makes unbelievers like Shortz feel uncomfortable.

Frankly people like Shortz who rail against everything I hold dear makes ME uncomfortable. Yeah, that's it. I'm "offended" by Shortz and his/her ilk ridiculing my Jesus. And because I'm "offended", maybe that should be outlawed, too. Oh, wait. I'm the majority here, so I don't get that right. I forgot. My bad.

"I still don't understand how Shortz can be okay with secularism overriding Christianity, but Christianity can't override secularism?"

Uh, not establishing a religion isn't the same thing as 'secularism.'

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